Offer of employment withdrawn because I asked to see maternity policies?

[mentol]

Hello!
I was wondering if I could get your help on this issue. I suspect I have had an offer of employment withdrawn because I asked to see the maternity policies.
The employer was very keen on having me and has been doing everything to have me working for them. However, I needed to see the maternity policies before I signed the contract and those were not provided. Although I feared this would happen, I asked about those policies. That was last week.

The email I got in response said they couldn't give it to me easily and they asked exactly which policies did I want to see. The response also had, for the first time, a set deadline for giving a start date on that same week or the offer would be withdrawn.

Since then, their emails have been very "cold" and I felt immediately that something was going on. The person that dealt with me directly throughout the process (the manager) was very insisting for a start date and he wasn't before. I had the feeling he wanted me to say no. I sent him the start date before the deadline and said that I would be discussing my notice with my current employer this week (Tuesday or Wednesday). Since then, I haven't heard anything back.

Today, I got an email saying that the offer has been withdrawn because they cannot wait for me to start on the date I gave them (which is 7 days later than their suggested start date) as the business cannot cope with that. They didn't discuss with me an alternative date. I am convinced this is because I asked for the policies.

I requested these policies from someone on H&R but she didn't sent it to me. I sent an email to the manager in response to his request for the start date, saying that I didn't receive some policies I had requested and that I needed them before I made a final decision. The person I requested these policies from was not in on that day. The manager sent me immediately the policies without me telling him which policies I had requested.

For me, it is clear that they have withdraw the offer because of that, possibly because they fear I may be pregnant or having a child soon. I don't think they can do this and I would like to hear from you on how to best proceed.

I don't want to work for a company that does this kind of things but I want them to be reported if this is what they are doing to women. In my opinion, this is discrimination. There's also the issue of me discussing it with my current managers which the company knew was going to happen today at the latest. They have put me in a unpleasant position.

I would really like to know what you think of this. Can they do this? Should I report this to someone? Any ideas on how should I proceed? Any help would be much appreciated.

This is a very well know and respectable company. I don't think this is the normal conduct of the company and I think it may be a local thing.

Thank you!

The OP legally made a counter offer, as she changed the start date. The company declined her offer. In order for acceptance to have occurred, she would have had to accept their offer in full or they would have had to have accepted the material modification of the start date.

I don't think that's clear from the OP. It depends when she formally accepted as it sounds as though any question of a start date condition came after the first offer.

FloweryTaleofNewYork, everything is in writing. The acceptance and start date are in writing as well. The only condition was statisfactory references which they would be able to get this week, as I needed to inform my managers first. You are right in that they haven't told me that I needed to start by a certain date.

YouAreMyFavouriteWasteOfTime, that's awful! If you did your job well, the n it would be unlawful for them to give you a bad reference but people are just like that.

LibraryBook, a suggested start date is not a condition of employment. I was asked for a start date without a formal start date deadline. I had a deadline for giving them the start date, which I met.

in your OP However, I needed to see the maternity policies before I signed the contract and those were not provided

so you could not accept until you has seen the ML policies.

You haven't received the modified version of the contract; therefore haven't signed it. How did you accept the offer? Your posts are quite convoluted...

I have accepted the offer in writing. It was impossible to sign a contract by the deadline as no contract had been provided. The only request was a start date by a certain deadline, which was met.

I made no counter offer as the offer had no start date on it.

Thank you!

What are you looking to achieve? Even if you can win the case for damages it's not clear that you've suffered any loss so you won't make money out of this. If you want to hurt them then I suspect a daily mail article will achieve more than a court case - although no financial benefit to you. And I do think that you risk damaging your professional reputation by pursuing this - your case is not clear cut and your motives could be construed as money grabbing. So, is it really worth that much emotion and head space? Given you have still got a good job why don't you focus on that?

mentol If you did your job well, the n it would be unlawful for them to give you a bad reference but people are just like that.

I can see why you would think that - but a company only has to provide your start and end date and job title. the rest is voluntary.

also my work was poor quality when I was 'send to Coventry'. imagine going to work tomorrow and being ignored and in March they are still doing it! It wasn't a great experience. but it is in the past and I give it very little thought.

I just want to say that that is disgusting behaviour from this employer. I am not in the slightest bit surprised, but women are absolutely discriminated against for wanting to have a family.

The conflicting views in society of female roles makes my head spin. We are expected to get a degree and then employment, but also to not leave having a family too late. So I assume be able to afford a house and meet a mate in our twenties. Raise these children but not raise them for too long as we need to hotfoot it back to work so we don't lose our footing on the career ladder or cause our employer any disruption.

You were entitled to see all the policies you asked for and they would have no doubt discriminated against you If you had specifically asked to see what policies they had on sick pay or disability access etc.

View this as a very lucky escape. I assume you haven't burnt any bridges with your current employers? Sometimes it's not a bad thing for them to know you are looking around at other options.

Totally agree with sebsmummy.

A lot of companies see women as second class citizens. We're consistently paid less than men for the same work and the employment forum on here is full of stories of women being shafted while on maternity leave.

More women need to start businesses on their own terms.

Honestly - I think it was a really daft question to ask. You sound very entitled. If this had been a small/medium company it would definitely NOT have been the right question.

You sound like you are trying to catch them out. Well, go ahead and sue. There will always be lawyers willing to take on your case but you sound tbh a bit of nightmare....

handcream, have you not read the thread?

Someone upthread said one maternity policy compared to another would have been a difference of £40k.

The Op doesn't sound entitled at all. She sounds pretty sensible to me!

cannot believe the number of posters berating the OP for asking to see policies before accepting a job offer

Mat pay differences between one employer and another was worth £45k to me as one had paid mat for 6 mths and the other was stat.
Hugely important

Well, she didnt get the job did she. Still think it was a daft question..

The way I see it in strict legal terms is this: the company's offer was an invitation to treat (because the start date was not yet agreed) - which you did - and they declined. There was no contract because there was no consensus ad idem (meeting of the minds). It may be morally unfair but legally, there was no contract to break. I wouldn't pursue this any further if I were you.

Sorry but your opening post is quite confusing - you stated that you wouldn't sign a contract until you had the policies, you stated that although HR didn't provide them, the manger did immediately send them upon request and that you had told him you needed these policies before you could make a decision. You also told him that you hadn't discussed your notice with your current employer.

As the CEO of an SME which absolutely has a policy against discrimination, I would have been concerned that you weren't committed to any offer of employment. Regardless of whether you had accepted an offer, I would consider that your actions may well suggest otherwise and would have suspected that, as you hadn't been in your current role for very long, you may have been stringing us along while you waited to see how the existing job played out. And whilst that's not an unreasonable position for you to take, it's also not unreasonable for me to begin to have concerns. I would then ask myself which would be the lesser of the two evils - accepting the consequences of possible breach of contract now or employing someone I don't think is going to fit with my organisation. The maternity issue isn't even one that would occur to me - as stated by someone else, most employers work on the assumption that women of child bearing age will, at some point, have children.

Just because women are often discriminated against, it doesn't follow that they are always discriminated against. And I say that whilst looking at the feminist tattoo on my wrist.

I do think that there is merit in writing to them and seeing if they can provide a response that satisfies you but you should be aware that the threat of tribunal proceedings mean that it's very difficult to have a full and frank discussion, even when you are aware as an employer that there has been no wrongdoing or intent. Wrongdoing or not, you'd be doing them a favour by highlighting that their actions could possibly be misconstrued and that the onus is on them to ensure that they are beyond reproach.

Sorry but I work for a big company and their policy can easily be found via Google. So please don't tell me I'm wrong. I also never said it was wrong for you to ask. Its not right what some companies do, but you need to play the game and not lay all your cards on the table IMO.

Come on everyone we don't have to fall in line with the current system, which has just shoe horned rules in to make it vaguely possible for women to work but on completely unsuitable terms and with unrealistic hours etc

we should not settle for shit treatment by employers like these. There are good employers out there, employment is a market too and they don't deserve us! [big grin]

Sorry I got over excited

No, I don't think the Op should pursue it either. Put it down to good luck that they withdrew their offer!

I think weighing up what you stand to 'make' or 'lose' for having a baby is the real problem here . I'm not sure you have your priorities straight.

Maca, really? If you were considering two jobs that were pretty much the same but one had 20 days holiday and the other 25, the holiday wouldn't be part of your decision?

^^ What Blistory said.

OP your description of what happened and when is unclear to many of us. It's possible that the particular policy itself is a red herring, and the company have suspected you'd be difficult to deal with, or wouldn't be a good fit for the team. That's not to say that you don't have the right qualifications or experience, it's more subtle than that.

Here's a simple question. Did you write "great, I can start on dd/mm." or did you say "I could start on dd/mm but need to see policies a,b,c."? Because they're not both acceptances of the offer.

Hi Everyone! Apologies for the delay in replying.

shoom: my acceptance was " I can start on dd/mm.". By then I had seen the policies.

handcream: Luckily (or maybe because I sound very entitled and a bit of a nightmare) I had 3 job offers and the chance to pick. Certainly, I am a nightmare to deal with.

Blistory: I'm sorry if it is all very confusing. I know that companies discriminate because of maternity. For that reason, I avoided asking for these and tried to get them without asking. That was absolutely impossible. As I was to start in a certain month which was getting closer, I had to make a decision. Leave my current employer without knowing the details of everything that matters to me with the new employer (which I was not happy with), or ask. I asked. They didn't sent them. Only sent them on the very last day, when I told them I couldn't accept without checking those policies. After I saw the policies, I immediately stated the start date.

MacaYoniandCheese: I think I do. I want a job that I like and that gives me the possibility of having a family. Is that wrong?

geologygirl: I can assure you the policies of this particular employer are not online. The policies of my current employer are online. It differs from company to company, I guess.