Offer of employment withdrawn because I asked to see maternity policies?

[mentol]

Hello!
I was wondering if I could get your help on this issue. I suspect I have had an offer of employment withdrawn because I asked to see the maternity policies.
The employer was very keen on having me and has been doing everything to have me working for them. However, I needed to see the maternity policies before I signed the contract and those were not provided. Although I feared this would happen, I asked about those policies. That was last week.

The email I got in response said they couldn't give it to me easily and they asked exactly which policies did I want to see. The response also had, for the first time, a set deadline for giving a start date on that same week or the offer would be withdrawn.

Since then, their emails have been very "cold" and I felt immediately that something was going on. The person that dealt with me directly throughout the process (the manager) was very insisting for a start date and he wasn't before. I had the feeling he wanted me to say no. I sent him the start date before the deadline and said that I would be discussing my notice with my current employer this week (Tuesday or Wednesday). Since then, I haven't heard anything back.

Today, I got an email saying that the offer has been withdrawn because they cannot wait for me to start on the date I gave them (which is 7 days later than their suggested start date) as the business cannot cope with that. They didn't discuss with me an alternative date. I am convinced this is because I asked for the policies.

I requested these policies from someone on H&R but she didn't sent it to me. I sent an email to the manager in response to his request for the start date, saying that I didn't receive some policies I had requested and that I needed them before I made a final decision. The person I requested these policies from was not in on that day. The manager sent me immediately the policies without me telling him which policies I had requested.

For me, it is clear that they have withdraw the offer because of that, possibly because they fear I may be pregnant or having a child soon. I don't think they can do this and I would like to hear from you on how to best proceed.

I don't want to work for a company that does this kind of things but I want them to be reported if this is what they are doing to women. In my opinion, this is discrimination. There's also the issue of me discussing it with my current managers which the company knew was going to happen today at the latest. They have put me in a unpleasant position.

I would really like to know what you think of this. Can they do this? Should I report this to someone? Any ideas on how should I proceed? Any help would be much appreciated.

This is a very well know and respectable company. I don't think this is the normal conduct of the company and I think it may be a local thing.

Thank you!

If they have withdrawn the offer and you have little to lose, you could say that you are seeking legal advice on the matter. Alternatively, you could ask why the rush and whether they have someone else starting on the date they claimed to want you to start - if not, why are they no longer prepared to wait a week for you as originally discussed.

Will the fact that you were considering another job get back to your current employers and affect your position there? Especially if they get wind of the fact that you were holding back on committing until you had seen, amongst others, their maternity policy. I know it shouldn't but is it likely to?

I do think that it was strange of you to ask about maternity policy and would advise against it until we live in an ideal world - or at least a world in which women in the wirkplace don't routinely get such a raw deal.

NiceTabard, actually I don't think I was naive. If this is the way they deal with a request for policies, then I certainly want nothing to do with them. In particular, if they are this inconsiderate towards people (I'm referring to the part where the knew I was informing my employer and withdraw the offer without giving a sh*) I am happy that I found out now then later on when they could give me a 1 week notice.

They are large private sector but their policies are not available to the public. You can be sure that I checked and checked. It is available only for employees.

It's weird that they are ashamed of their policy and don't believe that it would be attractive to a potential employee.

Spherical, I'm sorry but I didn't understand what you are asking in the second paragraph.

Well, I asked for it because it matters. And there was no other way for me to put it but I tried to be general and ask for a few policies, otherwise I wouldn't get this one in particular. Why on earth is this not in the contract/documents sent with contract?

It may be strange to ask, but really, if it matters, why shouldn't I? I'm just very happy I asked. The way they withdraw the offer has been very unprofessional and shows clearly their true nature. I am now sure that they don't give a sh* about their employees.

I am thinking of saying in the email that I will inform the managing director of the company, the Equality and human rights commission and also consider taking them to the Employment tribunal. Do you think this would be right? I have legal expenses cover so it might fine to take then through the legal route.

PM me if you want to have a further chat about what you can do.

Others are right though. Whilst there is certainly enough here to raise an inference of sex discrimination you need to consider whether it is worth your while pursuing the matter. Unless you have legal expenses insurance that will pick up the employment tribunal fees then its going o cost you over £1,000 just in court fees. You won't have much in the way of loss of earnings since you still have your existing job. In reality they are likely to be limited to the contractual notice period (if you can establish that you accepted the offer before it was withdrawn). You'd be looking at lower band injury to feelings award.

If your start date was a week after they needed you then they will give that as their reason and you will have to demonstrate that it was because you asked for the policies. Since you are clearly female and of childbearing age they will say that they knew when they offered you the position that there was a good chance you'd have a period of maternity leave during the employment.

Just seen your most recent post. If you have legal expenses insurance go for it.

Do not make assumptions about star pay based on sector! In my experience private sector is better than public.

I don't think it's unreasonable to ask for details of maternity provision as this is part of the financial decision whether you accept the role. If you had two offers, one with enhanced mat pay say for 6 months on full pay, he other only offering statutory mat pay, there is a very significant financial difference and it is prudent to know exactly what you are entitled to before accepting an offer.

Why would companies have enhanced maternity packages if not to attract the best (female) employees? So it is bonkers that they then don't want those potential stars to see the policy. Theirs is probably crap! I say sue.

Which company is it OP? Am curious!

I think you'd be on much firmer ground if you'd actually accepted the job offer, op. As it is, you have suffered no material loss by the withdrawal, and they've offered you a reasonable explanation; it's down to you to prove it's not true.
Can you do that? How?

GentlyGentlyOhDear, I wouldn't like to say the name of the company until I get things under way. I know its a bit paranoid but I don't want then to start "cleaning" up.

Floggingmolly, I have accepted the offer, haven't I? They sent me an offer, gave me a deadline, and I gave them the start date before the deadline. Isn't that accepting the offer? Or is it only after you sign the contract? I can prove that yes. They didn't discuss with me their issues regarding the start date. If they had, I would have sent them an earlier start date. I can start earlier but they just asked for a start date. However, as they didn't say they needed it to be by a certain date, I decided to go for a start date that wouldn't be as bad for my current employer.

This is not just about material losses. This is about discrimination. I don't care about the money, I just want them to be penalized for their behaviour. Do you think it is ok to let someone inform their current employer that they are leaving them and then withdraw the offer out of nothing?

If I left my last £10 note out in a public place and it got nicked we would all probably agree that it is wrong that people feel they can help themselves to stuff that is not theirs but I was stupid to put myself in that position. This is just the same

If they withdrew their offer for sexist reasons they are wrong but you are daft to give them the chance.

A friend of mine sued her ex-employer for constructive dismissal and won but, despite having high level jobs (chief exec roles), said it was the most stressful experience of her working life and she had a watertight case. Yours sounds as though it may be difficult to prove and liability will be small anyway.

timidviper, those people that nicked the note weren't looking at being with you in the same place every day and having a "relationship" as it is with a job. And if those people were caught on the act, then they would have been punished for that (possibly not for £10 but if it was for a £1000 they certainly would).

I just need to make something clear. My goal is not financial compensation. I just want to enforce the law to teach them a lesson.

If you are in a position to do that financially etc I say go for it.

All the employment laws in the world (or indeed the ones we have) can't stop employers discriminating. What stops them is if they think it might cost them - time / financial / reputation.

So if you have the means and the desire then certainly go get em. What they did was totally illegal. Happens all the time though, and if people like you challenge it and get an award against them, that will make other employers think again.

No practical advice, sorry.

Legal expenses insurance usually involves an assessment of the winnabulity of your case so you may not be covered.

"Thanks for all the helpful replies. For those criticizing me, you are in the wrong. There should be no problem in asking for these policies."

No one is "in the wrong" for giving their personal opinion. And I don't think anyone is saying there should be a problem asking for the maternity policy.

You were naive, OP. I am surprised they went as far as actually withdrawing the offer, but it would be a saintly and unusual employer indeed who didn't have their view of your level of commitment to the job altered by such a request. I think it's certainly naive to think you would have been starting on the same footing.

It's not clear whether you accepted the offer because initially you said you couldn't decide until you'd seen the maternity policy.

Anyway, I agree it's wrong for them to have withdrawn it and it looks very dodgy.

If you would be using legal insurance speak to them first I would. I think you also need to be prepared for the employer to respond to a complaint by saying "this was an error, nothing to do with your request, here are the policies you asked for, the week delay in starting is fine, look forward to welcoming you to x employer". In that event I think realistically it may be unlikely for the insurance company to take the case on tbh.

In what way do you want them to bepenalised? They won't be. Move on and forget about it, no good can come of you tryina to punish them

Dear [ ].

I have received your email purporting to withdraw the offer of employment made to me on [ ]. As you are aware I accepted the offer of employment by email dated [ ] and have attached a copy of the same. You will be aware than an employment contract is formed not when an individual commences work but at the point at which the offer is accepted. Your purported withdrawal of the employment offer is therefore a breach of contract.

I am extremely concerned that having accepted this employment it is then being withdrawn following my request to view the company's maternity policy. I can only assume that the offer has therefore be withdrawn as a result of my request. That an organisation as large and established as [ ] would directly discriminate against females in this way is quite shocking.

I am in the process of taking legal advice in relation to this matter and I understand my legal expenses insurers will appoint a solicitor to liaise with you further. In the meantime, I look forward to clarification of why the company felt it appropriate to terminate this contract without notice upon receiving a legitimate request to view the maternity policy.

I would appreciate a swift response to this email.

A type B tribunal is expensive (£250, then £950 fees plus you will need to pay for legal advice) and it's not certain you will win. I think you did not have a firm contract for employment as changing the start date was you making a counter offer which they subsequently refused.

The best redress is to name and shame them on Mumsnet.

Do NOT name and shame on mumsnet.

Everyone should be aware of the dangers of defamation when using social media. Any statement made would need to be made VERY carefully.

The cost of maternity leave should shared by the employers of both parents not just the mother's employer. It's the only way to stop women being discriminated against.

LibraryBook

Employers are reimbursed by the government for statutory costs and fathers are now entitled to take around half the leave.

I think since you had said you couldn't accept before you'd seen the policies, you might not have created the contract.

Incidentally, was the policy any better than statutory?