Offer of employment withdrawn because I asked to see maternity policies?

[mentol]

Hello!
I was wondering if I could get your help on this issue. I suspect I have had an offer of employment withdrawn because I asked to see the maternity policies.
The employer was very keen on having me and has been doing everything to have me working for them. However, I needed to see the maternity policies before I signed the contract and those were not provided. Although I feared this would happen, I asked about those policies. That was last week.

The email I got in response said they couldn't give it to me easily and they asked exactly which policies did I want to see. The response also had, for the first time, a set deadline for giving a start date on that same week or the offer would be withdrawn.

Since then, their emails have been very "cold" and I felt immediately that something was going on. The person that dealt with me directly throughout the process (the manager) was very insisting for a start date and he wasn't before. I had the feeling he wanted me to say no. I sent him the start date before the deadline and said that I would be discussing my notice with my current employer this week (Tuesday or Wednesday). Since then, I haven't heard anything back.

Today, I got an email saying that the offer has been withdrawn because they cannot wait for me to start on the date I gave them (which is 7 days later than their suggested start date) as the business cannot cope with that. They didn't discuss with me an alternative date. I am convinced this is because I asked for the policies.

I requested these policies from someone on H&R but she didn't sent it to me. I sent an email to the manager in response to his request for the start date, saying that I didn't receive some policies I had requested and that I needed them before I made a final decision. The person I requested these policies from was not in on that day. The manager sent me immediately the policies without me telling him which policies I had requested.

For me, it is clear that they have withdraw the offer because of that, possibly because they fear I may be pregnant or having a child soon. I don't think they can do this and I would like to hear from you on how to best proceed.

I don't want to work for a company that does this kind of things but I want them to be reported if this is what they are doing to women. In my opinion, this is discrimination. There's also the issue of me discussing it with my current managers which the company knew was going to happen today at the latest. They have put me in a unpleasant position.

I would really like to know what you think of this. Can they do this? Should I report this to someone? Any ideas on how should I proceed? Any help would be much appreciated.

This is a very well know and respectable company. I don't think this is the normal conduct of the company and I think it may be a local thing.

Thank you!

It is costly and disruptive for companies that pay above the statutory minimum (as is probably the case here). And 1% of fathers take the extra leave.

Given their attitude, I'm not so sure this company does pay above the norm!

What are the rules about paying enhanced pay to mothers and fathers - I assume it's the same but if the enhanced pay is only for a few weeks, more fathers will miss it.

Is it only 1%? Mind, it's only been in place since April, right - give it time

Hi Everyone! Thank you so much for all the replies!

littleredsquirrel thank you so much for the letter! I will use it in my reply.

I was just wondering if before I say something about the suspicion that this has to do with my request, I should "dig" a bit more? If I reply immediately saying that, then they will give some kind of excuse that it was an error, as someone here said. I was thinking of asking if they will have someone starting earlier. Would that be a good idea? Or would that give the impression that I can't start earlier? Thank you!

I think you need to decide what you want out if this first, and understand what it might cost you in time and money.

TheDoctrineofSanta : there is no obligation for employers to offer enhanced paternity pay equivalent to enhanced maternity pay if an employee takes additional paternity leave, although a small handful do. That said, currently fathers can only share the second half (roughly) of maternity leave, at which point most enhanced policies have reverted to the stat rate anyway.

PS the shared parental leave that has just been announced isn't coming into effect for a while yet (April 2015 I think?). Currently fathers can take additional parental leave if the mother goes back at any point after (I think?) 20 weeks. And receive any remaining statutory maternity pay for that time. The new rules will enable them to start sharing leave much earlier.

It's outrageous but common place that they acted as they did.
You are getting the advice you are looking for here but I would just caution most industries are a small world - this type of action gets out. Does your current employer know you were so close to leaving, what will be their reaction when they find out? Are the people involved in your recruitment likely to be clients, colleagues even recruiters again in the future?
I'm not saying they should get away with but you need to consider all potential outcomes before you enter the 'fight'.

DrBanner, thank you for raising this issue. It is a worry indeed that these things get out. I don't know if it would be likely for my current employer to find out.

Anyway, I had the interview before I started with my current employer and got the offer when I was already working for them. So, I wasn't looking around at that point, it just came to me and, as anyone would, I considered it. I don't think this company normally acts like this. I think this might be a local issue. If I could avoid the tribunal and get them to change their way in any other way, then I would prefer that. I am not after money. I just think this is awful and that I am being penalized, and will be for the rest of my life, because I will be afraid of asking for these policies. And these are very important in a decision like this :(

I can't understand why people think it's so bizarre to ask for a maternity policy. It can make a lot of financial difference, you wouldn't think it odd to find out pension details, why maternity ?

Let's say that OP has three offers of work on the table,

• Job A pays £20k but offers 6 months maternity at full pay and fully supports flexible working, you qualify for this benefit after 1 year of work
• Job B pays £20k but offers 9 weeks 90% pay and 3 months at 50%, you qualify for the benefit after 2 years of work
• Job C pays £20k but offers SMP only

Therefore knowing the maternity policy could make the difference which job she takes, all on the face of them with the same salary

ChristmasCareeristBitchNigel, absolutely right! That's why I asked. I was afraid of moving to this company and find out that the maternity pay was awful. I was thinking of not accepting because of not knowing the maternity pay. I don't think that's fair.

Christmas because most people know that employers do not want to hire someone who is pregnant / looking to become pregnant, and thus do not want to jeopardise their chances of getting a job by basically stating that is their plan.

It is wrong, and illegal, and it would be great to change everything so that this discrimination didn't happen. But at the moment, most people know how it is and avoid saying anything to the employer that they know will reduce their chances of getting the job.

Nothing wrong with asking for policies at all (and I speak as a male employer). We send out our policies on a pen drive with our contract paperwork as a matter of course (I am aware of other companies that do the same).
Presumably the start date was a condition of the offer so it is entirely possible that this was the reason for you not being hired. It would be difficult and expensive for you to try and prove otherwise - at the moment it is just your opinion that you were penalised for asking to see a maternity leave policy. There may well be someone else who was a close contender for the role who can start earlier, and they have decided to offer the role to them instead. Other things to consider: a tribunal will take up a lot of your time and may leave you out of pocket. It is a small world out there and you do not want a reputation as a troublemaker to affect your ability to apply for roles in the future.
You could speak to an employment lawyer and see what they think your likelihood of success is, but unless you have a high % confidence of winning, I would leave it and move on personally. Even if you win, you could end up out of pocket.

Pension is different. Pension will probably be paid throughout your working career with that company, rather than for a few months, and will make a difference in your retirement for an ongoing period. Much more money involved than whether someone gets half pay for 6 months or SMP.

I think it's very unusual for a decision whether to accept an offer of employment to rest on the contents of maternity policy which is why people are expressing surprise.

For most people, the main factors they look at when deciding on a new job are the content of the job itself, the responsibility level and duties involved, the people they will be working with, what the company does/how it works, stability of the job, likely career progression opportunities, development opportunities, the commute/hours and other logistical aspects, and whether the salary is acceptable. All that balanced against how much they want to leave their current job (assuming they have a choice) and what else is out there.

It would be very unusual indeed for someone to have two offers where all those things are equal and for the decision to come down to how much money they'd get paid over statutory amount for a few months possibly at some point in their career. For most people, in the scheme of things, that would be a fairly minor point.

I would want to be in a position where I was excited about the job, the company, and what I would be doing before accepting an offer to work there, and if I was that excited and motivated and enthused and committed to the job and the employer, and the logistics were fine, then the fact that they might have a basic maternity policy as opposed to an enhanced scheme wouldn't deter me.

Just my personal approach, but actually a common one I think. I think people are also surprised at how openly the OP was prepared to send the message that she is planning to go on maternity leave as soon as possible (rightly or wrongly, that's the message she has sent), and would expect someone for whom these things are important to find out in a slightly less obvious way, by asking for the handbook or whatever.

The best way to flag up the discrimination without the cost is to report it to the Equality & Human Rights Commission. They'll follow up if they think there is merit in it.

OP you've mentioned several different outcomes you are looking for here. You've said you wanted to penalise them, and wanted to teach them a lesson, but you've also said you just want to make sure they don't do it to anyone else.

If genuinely all you want is to make sure they don't do it to anyone else, a strongly worded letter to the appropriate senior people would probably go a long way. It's a big company rather than a small business owner who either doesn't know it's unlawful or doesn't care and makes the decisions him/herself without input from elsewhere. This won't be company policy, it will more likely be a rogue person going off-piste. Once sensible people find out, the person will most likely have their knuckles rapped and won't do it again.

Trapper: they offered me the job 2 months ago and they were very aware at the time that I could only start in the month I gave as start date. That was clear from the start. The start day was not clear thought.

They have been very interested all this time. I was even at the offices and they told me why they wanted me and how confident they are in my skills. There has never been a conditional offer on the start date. It has never been stated that if you can't start before this date then you won't get the job. I am sure that a date should have been stated if it was conditional on a start date. And if that was a problem, they should come back to me and say that that was a problem and if I could start any earlier. This is what has to be done and not come back with a withdrawal of the job offer right at the time they knew I was going to inform my current employer. There has to be a law making this unlawful, otherwise no one can move jobs.

flowery: I was very unsure about which job was my favorite. The little things make a difference when you are this unsure.

I think you are right in saying that I should contact the senior people and that was my first thought. I could have asked for the handbook but I had no idea that that was what I should ask for to get this particular policy. I just need to find the most appropriate person to send this to. Would it be the managing director of the company?

If you were going to inform your current employer does that mean you accepted the job then? As in, you saw the policies you needed, they were acceptable and you notified them of your acceptance of the offer?

You are right that any conditions placed on the offer should be notified at the time the offer is made.

Cross post.

Yes the MD would be fine, I would copy to whoever recruited you and to the HR Director.

I was very unsure about which job was my favorite. The little things make a difference when you are this unsure.

you don't sound keen on actually doing the job! if you were enthusiastic to them at interview, then effectively said 'if I don't like your ML policy, I wont take the job', you undermine what you have said to them. you don't look like you are serious about the job.

I always look for inconsistencies in what candidates say and do/have done.

TBH if someone started to ask questions about holidays, sickness policy etc. as part of deciding to accept the job, i would wonder how I had missed their attitude and let them get so far in the process.

OP, you have added 2 + 2 and assumed it equals discrimination over the mat policy docs.
You may well be right.
However, it could equally well add up to the fact that you hadn't given them a precise start date, were continuing to ask for documents not normally requested, giving the appearance of a failure to fully commit.
That is not a criticism, it is a perspective.

There would appear to be no clear proof that the withdrawal of offer was made solely because of the request for maternity policy, and from the brief outline you have given, even I could make a fairly strong case for the defence.

Personally, I think you would be on very dodgy ground taking it forward on the basis on your assumption/suspicion.
I note that you say "For those criticizing me, you are in the wrong", so this may not rest very well with you, but I would reiterate that it is a perspective. The employer is equally entitled to have their view of events considered, under the Law.

I am a small business owner not some large organisation with an HR dept. I learn about employees' statutory rights as I want to be a fair employer and avoid ET. I reward thought pay (including generous rises in the downturn) not benefits as its easier to pay a bonus than set up a policy.

TBH I think most employees would rather have cash than anything else. then they can choose what to do with it rather than have a policy chosen for them.

if someone wants lots of policy information before accept a job, this is not the place for them, nor they for us.

I have to say, I am surprised at the number of people who would take a job without looking at the policies first. The difference between statutory benefit driven policies and those offered by companies that place a higher value on their workforce can vary enormously. Maternity/paternity policy is a big one for both male and female job seekers. Parents should understand whether emergency leave to look after dependents is paid or unpaid. People who need to take short notice holidays (aging family abroad for example) should consider the notice you have to provide to book a holiday. People who may get ill (all of us) should understand how many weeks will be paid for by the company before reverting to statutory etc. If you wear glasses, will they pay for your frames and lenses, if you travel with work will it be business class? If you need an annual season ticket, will they lend you the money for it so you can spread the cost over a year? As a member of staff can you purchase your company's product at a discounted rate?
Your contract will probably reference policies anyway so it makes sense to review the contract you are signing in parallel with the policies.