Male Nursery Nurses - What do you all think?

[M2T]

At ds's nursery they have just hired a male Deputy Manager. He is really nice and the kids love him. I thought it was nice to see a man working in a predominantly female stereotyped role. I work in an industry where women aren't really welcomed, so I know how awkward he must've felt at the beginning.

DH, however, wasn't so keen on the idea. He didn't like the idea of a man changing ds's nappy and stuff. I talked him round and he has spoken to the guy now, but I think that his reaction is probably quite common.

I've never heard of a male nursery nurse and wondered if anyone else had. Are there different rules for what a man can do and not do within nursery??

I'm all for it and think we need more men coming forward and doing what must be a very tiring, but rewarding job.

I had a long conversation about this with a friend of mine who works in the local nick. He told me that the police have two databases:

1. A national database containing all information on convictions, which all forces can access.

2. A regional 'police intelligence' database - where officers record information on their own intelligence on people - suspicions, tips, reports, etc etc - the kind of 'soft' intelligence that they often depend on to solve crimes.

It's 2 that is the subject of debate, and I think it's almost a foregone conclusion that in cases of child protection issues, one of the recommendations coming out of the Soham inquiry will be that police regions should be sharing inteligence databases. I hope so anyway.

dd's nursery used to have a realy wonderfulmale worker, he transfered to head up a new branch they opened. I think if a man has gone to the trouble of choosing a traditionally non male profession it shows a real dedication and love for the job, wheras I suspect that some young girls can sometimes drift into childcare courses.

On a slightly related topic, is it still the case that a both sex school party can be accompanied by only female teachers but not by only male teachers (sorry teachers you are being asked lots of questions at the moment) and if so does this not contravene equal ops laws?

I hope so too Tom

I'm sorry but I don't like this idea at all.
Today my ds1 garbled something about a man at playgroup telling him something or other and I instantly panicked. What man, what did he look like, where was he? I think that it was one of the kids dads helping out but it made me realise that I don't like the idea of men caring for children and especially not in a one-one childminding situation.
Also did anyone note the news worthy new initiative a few months ago. The government were thinking of raising the level of pay for nursery workers to intice men into the profession. So not to reward the women for their hard work then? Disgusting.

I would not expect a man to walk into a female toilet. What do you do in the simming-pool then? DH takes DD swimming once a week and they both change in the male chaging room. I have never worried about it as she is with DH, but interested to know what others do ? Perhaps swimming pools should have a parent/child changing-facilities ?

BK - yep, you've hit the nail on the head. The fundamental reason there aren't more men in childcare is, more than anything else, because the pay is awful. The Equal Opportunities Commission has pointed out that if you get more men into a profession, the pay goes up - surprise, surprise.

Pay is also one - just one - reason why fewer fathers take time off paid work, Tom. Men tend to earn more than women (except in our family, where I earn more than dp on four days a week - perhaps he just isn't paid enough for his five). I totally agree that children should see more male carers, but you do have to look at the gender and socio-economic issues that have set up our current situation.

Right, I'll get back off the soap box

it certainly is an enormous problem in prep schools. and if you ask any prep school boy who the creepy teaschers are, they will tell you! a teacher from my dh's prep scool was recently jailed for offences which were uncovered 20 years later after two boys (now men) met up through friends reunited. the terrible thing is that he was sacked from my dhs school for suspicions, but was still given refs and went onto this other school whose ex-pupils eventually shopped him. ditto the prep school in the town my senior school was in - we all knew that it was an odd place, and my headmistress told my mum not to semd my brother there. 15 years later the headmaster and owner of that school was jailed for repeated offences stretching back 25 years. another fried... abused by his latin master from ages 7 - 9 at one of the most famous preps in the country... etc etc etc. i don't know of a single m,an of my age who went to prep school who couldn't tell you who the dodgy teachers were. sad and horrific.

That doesn't surprise me, sadly. I do suspect that men who work in other forms of childcare probably have - mostly - very different motives, though.

Batters - does that mean that in your opinion I should be taking my DS into the men's toilets?

Personally I think the Ian Huntley being the school caretaker was a bit of a red herring. It wasn't at the girl's school because they were still primary. So unfortunately I think that even if he'd been refused the job due to police checks and got another one not at the school he would still have been in the position to commit the crime.

hmmmmm MI. Do you think so? I think the more access to children the dodgier. boarding prep schools obviously very high access, but primary and nursery not far behind I'd say. Also a LOT of problems in care homes.

Good grief PPH! You know a lot of people who have been abused. How awful!

I must say that I had a male primary school teacher. We would've been aged 10/11 then. Looking back I can't think of a single situation that could've arisen where he would've had the opportunity to abuse me. Not saying it doesn't happen, but just that in my situation we were never alone with him, unless by choice we went to ask him something at lunchtime.
He was a brilliant teacher! We all loved him. He called us his little bampots.

Actually.... now I remember he ran off with my P4 teacher!! MEN!

I think it's a great shame if men aren't allowed to work in positions where they care for children or if they are viewed so suspiciously. I grew up with both male nursery teachers and primary school teachers and I can't remember anyone worrying about it. In Sweden we have more men working in these professions and I can't say anyone worries that much about it. I think the UK seem to be a bit of a paranoid society sometimes. I wonder if it really is more child abusers here or if people just worry more?

I assume that all you ladies saying that men shouldn't be able to do this sort of job are the same ones who would be up in arms if a woman was excluded or had their character called into question in her job simply because of her sex?

I'm desperately trying to think of an appropriate female dominated crime but can't off hand.

IMO, toilets and changing rooms are different matters. In a womens toilet, I have NEVER seen a woman unclothed, but in mens toilets, men are, by neccesity, 'exposing themselves'. Doesn't it make more sense for a man to take a daughter into the womens toilets than expose her to the often rather rank conditions in men's toilets? Are we grown women really so nervous about having a man, a dad at that, the other side of the locked cubicle door when we pee?

Shoes how building design and planning still reflects an outdated family model, i.e it's women who take children out.

Changing room-wise, there is usually a family one, and, if there really is a problem about toilets, the unisex disabled on is often a good bet (and has the nappy changing facilities because of the extra space. Though a problem if this denies access to a disabled person!)

Soupy: Shoplifting? Oooh good, women banned from going shopping!

I agree the state of male toilets are horrid, but then I wouldn't want my son in them either....
If my DD sees someone's willy,so what? Surely she has seen DH's willy enough time and they all look pretty much the same.....

Personally, yes. I would feel uncomfortable about having a male stranger in the womens' toilets whilst I was there. I never had a problem with males I knew such as the male cleaner at work.

PPH, I think I differentiate between residential care - where I totally agree with you - and day access. I also have what is probably a completely stereotyped feeling that boys' schools have facilitated a certain kind of culture.

It's a complete catch22, I do think. Because I want more men involved in looking after children, their own and others'...and also the current set-up (including PAY) means that a lot of men who might be interested don't do it so arguably that does leave a core of (some) men who have dodgy motivations which fuel their determination to stick it out in this area.

Agree with you Blu about the outdated family model.

But (and I realise I seem to be going on about this ) I think the 'rank conditions' and the men 'exposing themselves' are separate issues. If DH takes DS out obviously he has to take him to the men's toilets. DS is 2 and to sit on the toilet he has to hold onto the seat. This is hardly ideal if the toilets are that awful.

Blu,I was going to suggest "shoe theft" but thought it sounded flippant. Hehehe. Obviously we're the main perpetrators of grape theft in supermarkets.

Yes, the majority of paedophiles are men but that doesn't mean that the majority of men (or even the majority of men working with children) are paedophiles.

In that case, Bozza, I would be very happy for your DH to bring your DS or DD into the womens toilets!Elswhere in europe and scandinavia, toilets are unisex, anyway.

Soupy: LOL re grapes

maybe, MI.
Soupy, I never once said that men shouldn't be allowed to do these jobs. I said it was sad but true that my initial reaction was not to trust a man in that sort of job until he had proved himself/earnt my trust. I do agree that primary schools are very female-centric and a few good male role models in the form of teachers is an excellent thing. I just worry that for every few great male teachers there is one dodgy one and that certainly isn't the case with female staff.

For me it's all about reducing the risk of my dd being in a dangerous situation. It's just clear to me that if she was in a asituation with a man where he was changing her or helping her on the loo, that increases the risk!
As for men,(dads), in loos, i wouldn't mind! I would rather that than my dd go into the gents!