How do people afford to work

[peppajay]

I have been thinking of going back to work for some time but have come to the conclusion that it will not be worthwhile as will have to pay for childcare for 2 children during the holidays, even if I worked p/t and had to pay for say 2 or 3 days childcare a wk during the holidays for 2 children, plus after school we would just break even. I have no family locally to help out.

My family and DH do not agree with working mothers anyway so I am not pressurised to go back to work but I would like to do something for my own sanity. I don't want to do sales reps or work from home as I am looking to go back to work for more of a social side and not a money side as we can just about get by on my DH's salary. We don't have holidays, a nice car or go out often but we just about get by. I feel very isolated in the day as all my friends work but none of them have to pay for much childcare as they have grandparents and family to help them out.

I could work at weekends but this is precious family time and my hubby wouldnt be happy looking after the children.

Also the stress of keeping up with the housework, packing lunches up, keeping up with the washing how does it all get done?

I think my only option would be to work in a school but these jobs don't come up often.

So I just wondered how other people do it as I seem to be the only mother who doesn't work!!!

We don't have any help from family, I have one friend who helps out when she cabbie it on any regular kind of basis.

DH had his own business so he needs to be available 24/7 as far as possible. To make this work I work 2 night shifts a week (nhs) this means we need very little childcare plus I pretty much get to be a SAHM (during daylight hours anyway).

It can be tiring going to work after a day with the kids (especially if I have to stay up with them the next day too) but it means I can bring in some much needed extra money and I'm keeping up my skills.

People seem to think breaking even is a bad thing - but if it means getting back on the career ladder, improving your wellbeing, and letting your children learn social/sharing skills in nursery etc, then it's worth much more than breaking even.
You sound a little lonely if I'm honest, OP. Maybe looking for a part time job would be right for you.
DP and I work full time, with one child in nursery (my mum has her one day a week- I pay her). It's hard and you do have to be super organised wrt packed lunches, clothes and shoes ready etc - but - I really appreciate my time off with her, when I'm off I get to do nice things as we have a bit of spare money, we've just booked a decent holiday - and best of all, as DP and I work equally, we share the household/childcare chores equally, so he does half the nursery pick up/drop offs, every other wash, half the cooking. It works for us.

It might be worth having a chat with your DH about how you're feeling, and having a look at job sites or asking around. Jobs are v thin on the ground at the mo but your area might have some opportunities.

I worked between my first and having my second and it was great but I did feel that I couldn't give my all to either my child (as I was having to make sure everything was organised ready to go to work) or my job as I was constantly worrying about my DD being ok and all the jobs that needed to be done at home. I wouldnt like a career now as I feel I am a mother now and to have a career isn't fair as I will always put my family first and not my career. I would just like a job a supermarket, or admin somewhere, something where I go to work and meet other people and that isn't particularly taxing. I have looked at perhaps working in a charity shop as it gets me out!!! Sometimes I wish life was like it was 30 yrs ago when I was litttle and most kids had their mothers at home and the mothers didnt get bored as they all had each other!!!! I had a great childhood and have fab memories of my mum being at home as well as all my friends mums and all meeting up etc but this just doesnt happen anymore, and I understand that in this financial climate people have to work but it does seem such a shame that this mums at home culture is being lost ;0(

Are you actually asking whether people can 'afford' to work, or whether they want to?

I don't know what this fabled 30 years ago SAHM network is. I keep hearing people refering to it. My mum worked FT, my DH's mum worked PT. Women who fight for equal pay in Daggenham Ford's factory were working mums. Maybe it's a class thing, where there are people who have the choice not to work.

Do some voluntary work?

What is this 'golden age' of which you speak? If you mean a time when women had less options available to them, and often couldnt work because they were barred from staying in their profession as a mum, or because proper childcare was very scarce in the past, and when intelligent women were often depressed or bored witless with housewifery- then frankly, thank god times have moved on.

If you want to work, then do so. Quite honestly, even in a minimum wage job, you will only be paying for some holiday care and out of school hours, so I don't believe that if you total it up all year round you'll be out of pocket at all.

You do sound lonely tbh. Nothing to be ashamed of- I would be lonely and bored too with school age kids and most other mums out working. A job is about a lot more than just bringing in money.

If it is only in the school hols that you would need childcare then the rest of the time you will have the extra income AND you will feel better in yourself for getting out. You are also rebuilding your work record for when you are ready to go full time.

Why not go into school and be a parent helper?

Listen to the children reading or cut things out or laminate and photo copy. Be a help and do not judge!!

Join the PTA. Get involved in fundraising for the school and become an asset.

This is exactly what I did when we moved to this area 5 years ago and I am now a full time TA at the school.

Well, I had childcare. I had to earn more than the childcare cost, otherwise it would not have made economic sense (unless it was a short-term investment into work costing more than I earned).

I'm not sure what the question is, in fact. There isn't a single simple magic job with childcare attached. Everyone just muddles through, as far as I can tell.

How about trying to register as a childminder?

I don't have family nearby either. I paid for childcare btw. Many do.

Do the sums. I have seen other people complain about this issue of not being able to afford to work, and tbh I find it hard to believe when you have school age children.

Take a minimum wage job. Calculate what you would get over the whole year.
Calculate the out of school care costs for 2 children. Remember you will get approx 7 hours a day free care while they are in school. Remember also that you and your dh must be entitled by law to at least 4 weeks holilday per year each. If you stagger some of your holiday you can massively cut down the amount of holiday care needed.

I would be really interested to see figures which 'prove' that you would end up out of pocket. With pre school children it's an entirely different picture, as nurseries often charge for 10 hours a day every day all year round.

If you are going to come back and say, but my husband doesn't want to have to take holiday to look after the kids, then frankly, you have chosen the type of partner you want, and you'll have to face that problem.

Thanks for all your replies. I think something like a TA is probably the way forward as it is term time only which is what is ultimately going to suit me. Or dinner lady is another option. The more I think about it the more opportunities I think there are out there for me. I already work in the school 1 morn a week and also do a bit of voluntary work for my local childrens centre, so perhaps some kind of employment will come from these. Its not as if I am desperate financially to get a job so hopefully time will tell. In the day I just get lonely as everyone else is working. Come school pick up time it is great I see loads of other mums/grannies/childminders and go to the park with all the kiddies and life is good. I just get a bit down sometimes between 9 and 3!!

Working is not always about the money!

It is about self esteem too.

I would go doo-flipping-lally if I did not go out to work but that is how I feel and nothing to do with other people.

The money is truly awful but I am lucky to work school hours and do something that I really love.

Peppajay. You are not the only one not to work. I have rarely worked since having my first 20 years ago. My children are really socialised as I have the time to take them to many activities meeting new people. I wouldn't send them to school if I didn't feel I should. My life is so fullfilled and theres too much fun to be had to be bored. I have worked at childrens centres and as a TA and was/ is Qualified Teacher. I would still have needed child care during holidays so stopped. Many pple believe these positions have full school holidays but most don't. The best part is the ability to support the curriculum and help with homework and time to accompany school trips etc. If you have the chance stay at home and find something that interests you. I'm sorry but people who aren't interested in bringing their children up shouldn't have them. This is not intended for you or anybody else in particular here.

I completely understand where you are coming from, dc2 is due in June and ds will be going to school after the summer.
I am thinking along the same lines, it's not going to be worthwhile me going back to work as the nursery in the village I live in does not take children under 2 so my only option is a cm. In order for her to be able to cover ds after school and during holidays I will need to pay a retainer fee while he's at school and full fee when he is there, at the moment I pay £4 ph for ds and I can assume by the time I need to go back to work this will probably have gone up. My partner works offshore so he cannot always be available to cover holidays etc.
I work for £6.25ph so already 2 thirds of that goes towards child care, I am not paid for sick days if my son is sick but still charged by cm, not complaining as its just the way it is.
I am facing the prospect of having 2 children's worth of sick days to contend with.
Is it worth working for a minus??

With us it's the opposite. We really can't afford for one of us not to work. Even after childcare (DS2 is 10 months, DS1 is 13 so not in childcare) I come out with enough money to make a difference to our budget. Or DH does if you look at it that way. Anw we live in a Coronation Street back to back type house, don't go on holidays etc so we're not extravagant. Are there really people who can't afford to work? How does that work out? Not having a go, genuinely curious.

It's not just about earnings versus child care it also involves long term commitments. As soon as Tax credits became available we survived on my dh's minimum wage. We had a mortgage to pay and 2 children then. Now we have 3 but only 2 receiving tax credit and FA. Tax credit went into a separate account to save and we paid mortgage off when we were about 40. For me I wasn't prepared to work for less or slightly more than I got at home, as by the time I had bought work related things I would be worse off. Saying this we don't have foreign holidays (had a few in this country), no sky tv, and one family car. Have never paid for child care but would have to if I had worked as my dh works unsociable hours and sleeps through school run unless I am ill, or something. I think it's a choice that everyone has to make but if you are adamant and prudent it's possible to be a sahm on one minimum waged salary. Our way of living is certainly not for everyone but we aren't conventional. Our house is an Edwardian semi 4 bed. But we started off with a tiny cottage did it up made some money and moved up. Did the same again, making a small amout and then finally this house.

really?
have a good look at the figures. If your income is low then tax credits will apply. The holidays are only 1/4 of the year. You and DH will surely be using annual leave to cover a good chunk of the holidays. You could also do a swap with other working mums, who I'm sure would be happy to take yours for a week in return for you doing the same (am just arranging this myself now).

I have two which are not at school age yet, so after deducting childcare and travel the net contribution from my working to the household income is somewhere between FA and not very much. Seriously, we were much better off when I was on SMP and I'm working full time. I couldn't afford to reduce my hours as once ours are reduced all the discounts we get at nursery for 2 full time children don't apply anymore so I'd basically only reduce my income for no saved childcare costs. And being salaried means that hours reduction doesn't really work anyway. So I'd be reducing my income but not neccessarily working any less.

Anyway, sticking to it now means that I keep my place in the work place, build up my skills and improve my employability, so it's worth it. Also, I genuinly enjoy my job. Doing the hard maths, me staying at home would probably financially better at the very moment, but that would fall apart in the long run very very quickly.

The maths is simple, how much is coming in versus how much is going out. If the former is more than the latter, or you can juggle to fix this then why should you work. I didn't have children to allow somebody else to bring them up as I see this as my responsibility. Of course others think differently it's their right. For me it was sheer determination to be a sahm. Before tax credits it was hard with 2 small children and no subsidised pre school. I couldn't afford nursery but didn't need it. We never had loans or credit and managed to live within our basic needs, asking what we needed not wanted, and it was tough. Now WTC/TC has paid off our mortgage we use it for savings for pension as not working I haven't paid into one. I am not saying this would work for everyone, although it is financially viable and my answer to the op

Something is very wrong if a single income family can use tax credits to pay off their mortgage whilst a dual income family can't even get close to saving up for a deposit (despite living completely within modest means)

'people who aren't interested in bringing their children up shouldn't have them'

Hahahahahahahahaha

Yeah, right, because doing the perfectly normal thing, which the majority of adults do, of earning a living , means you aren't bringing your children up.

Dearie me I've heard it all now.

Get a job if you want op, and organise childcare, and rest assured that whether you do or don't, you will still be raising your children

I agree ww - if a family are able to pay off their mortgage by age 40 using tax credits, with only one earner on a low wage, then no wonder this country is seriously screwed!

Widowwadman, All I can say is I agree with you in this present climate. But We have been married for 20 years, living together for 25. We had nothing to start with but still managed on one income, this was before tax credits. As I said previously we did make some money from sale of property as we always went for houses needing work. When we bought our last house we had half to put down as deposit as house prices were low in 2001. The other half was mortgaged and paid off within 10 years. We have never claimed for anything we weren't entitled and now live a good life still not too material but are a bit better off. There is no way I could work as child care doesn't exist to cover my dh/ my past work. People who talk about annual leave are the people working for an employer not themselves. It would have to be a very well paid job for me to earn/ have less outgoings than I do now. Cars and fuel to feed them don't come cheap. Overnight nannies would be expensive. Theres also tax, work wardrobe and all the extras people spend to justify working.

Where we are a FT nursery place is £900 per month so of you had 2 children in FT nursery you would need to earn £30k a year to pay for the nursery. That ignores any help you can get for it and the costs of going to work like travel costs and work clothes. So you need to be quite well paid to make it worth doing if you don't qualify for any help. On the other hand if you think that you might want to return to work later and a gap might be a problem the for lifetime earnings you might be better off working.