How do people afford to work

[peppajay]

I have been thinking of going back to work for some time but have come to the conclusion that it will not be worthwhile as will have to pay for childcare for 2 children during the holidays, even if I worked p/t and had to pay for say 2 or 3 days childcare a wk during the holidays for 2 children, plus after school we would just break even. I have no family locally to help out.

My family and DH do not agree with working mothers anyway so I am not pressurised to go back to work but I would like to do something for my own sanity. I don't want to do sales reps or work from home as I am looking to go back to work for more of a social side and not a money side as we can just about get by on my DH's salary. We don't have holidays, a nice car or go out often but we just about get by. I feel very isolated in the day as all my friends work but none of them have to pay for much childcare as they have grandparents and family to help them out.

I could work at weekends but this is precious family time and my hubby wouldnt be happy looking after the children.

Also the stress of keeping up with the housework, packing lunches up, keeping up with the washing how does it all get done?

I think my only option would be to work in a school but these jobs don't come up often.

So I just wondered how other people do it as I seem to be the only mother who doesn't work!!!

As a part time working mum I can fully understand why the OP wants to find a job to help regain some independence and social support. I'm lucky that I have family support which obviously helps and a job that is reasonably well paid and allows for part time working. Have you checked what tax credits you may be eligible for or as someone else suggested would childcare vouchers be an option to pay for holiday care?

I have to say I'm open mouthed at the idyll of 1970s women all staying at home caring for their children - what happened to all the female teachers, nurses etc. who carried on working after having children? I'm even more open mouthed at the useless men some of these poor souls are married to! My dh is a fantastic hands on dad as are the dh's of all my friends - even my 1970s dad was the same! I just think how sad it is that they miss out on so much by choosing not to spend time with their children.

Hope you get the help you need, OP.

"I'm sorry but people who aren't interested in bringing their children up shouldn't have them."

Blimey - should men (who in your vision of society all work while women don't) not have children then?

Quattocento and Callmemrs. Where did I say that women should stay at home? So all people are women now are they? So in your opinion people who don't want to/ not interested in bringing their children up should add to the over crowded population then. At no place did I say women shouldn't work. IMO I don't want to let somebody else bring my children up, which is what would happen if I used extensive childcare. I don't suggest that women who work don't bring their children up how they feel fit but it's not right for me. If you bring your children up and are interested in doing so why would my comments offend. I know some parents who rarely see their children and to me thats not bringing them up. This has nothing to do with women working. I feel the same about men who never see their kids. I addition, I never said I had been bashed nor did I imply anybody here had offended. Although I do receive criticism for being sahm, not that it worries me, does make me a tad bit defensive though. I openly apologised if I had offended you, obviously you aren't woman enough to accept that I don't feel your views are right for me, maybe you aren't as happy with your decisions as I am with mine. Maybe I touched a nerve. I couldn't give a monkeys to be frank. BTW there are many on this thread who have openly disagreed with my opinion but not launched an attack, I hope you don't work with people, or need negotiation or communication skills.

Gay40. I don't need a crystal ball. DS1 and DS2 are here, dd at school. Today I am helping ds1 with c.v he has interview and going to uni and work later. Then I am proof reading his work, then preparing a mock interview he asked me to do. This is in between printing off sociology AS level papers for ds2 who wants to do this tonight and I will mark tomorrow. Then I will prep dancing clothes for dd class tonight and music theory work for dd, for tonight. Then download resources for her prep this week. As a past teacher I started educated my own when we moved 250 miles and ds's had missed some of curriculum. It just sort of carried on from here. I don't suggest at all everybody should have to do this. But I do see it as part of me bringing them up, along with the conversations I am having with them this morning about all sorts of things. Then I will prep tea/ clean and do laundry. Everything is done by 3pm and then from then until various bedtimes I am free to support, teach, escort and observe their various activities. I work from 7am until gone 10pm at night and most of this is imo part of raising my children. Still not suggesting others do the same(Yawn), to me it is my job and I love it. I know others feel differently, but isn't it good we aren't all the same? We'd all be fighting for the same jobs as there aren't many.

Hmmm having done all three (SAHM, Part-time working and Full time working) I really don't look at any of these as times where my children suffered or where I wasn't doing my parenting properly.

I would say that the main difference is in the level of sanity and stress as I would say that most working parents will be doing all the stuff halfrom mentions at weekends/in the nights/evenings, I don't believe for a minute that it just doesn't get done.

The thing that annoys people is the assumption that just because the parent is not there 24/7, that makes them a bad parent or a less caring parent or a parent that doesn't manage as well. It isn't the case for most people.

People tend to look at extremes when thinking of the opposite situation; of course nobody long term wants to be the parent that drops off at CM at 7am and picks up at 7pm or worse is not there during the week and children with GPs all week long, but most people would manage something in between, or what I would call a balance.

It is the same as looking at the opposite extreme, ie families with SAHMs who are depressed and unhappy all the time. There always is a balance somewhere for people. As a final note, having done years and years of school runs already, I noticed that even where parents both work full time in very busy professional jobs, there is always a parent there to pick up or drop off in the week at some point, it's very rarely the case of CMs or nannies all week every week and the same parents do seem to be there for all the important events, work in not a prison sentence after all!!!

Working parents bring their children up too- end of

Whn my Dc were pre-school they were at an excellent nursery, which was very expensive, and so it was just about break-even, but as others have said, its not just abot the mney today, but future prospects. As it happens, because I was respected at the company, had no break in service, and came back to work when I said I would after mat leave (they had been let down previously) that when the DC started school, i was able to negotiate a term-time only working arangement with my employer and to be mostly home-based so I could do drop-off and pick-ups. It was unprecedented, no-one in my company had been able to do that before, but they agreed and the arrangement worked extremely well until my youngest went to secondary school and I decide that I no longer needed it. I would not have been able just to get a job with that arangement if I had chose to be SAHM in the interim - it was because I had maintained the relationship with the company and demonstrated that I was reliable. I have a friend who is a partner in a law firm - who has also done this subsequently - would not have happened if she had taken a career break first.

halfrom, you are simply doing all the things that I and other parents do in the average week, but you are not engaging in paid employment anywhere. Basically spinning it out to fill a day and justify it.
And the fact that you are still running around after a university student speaks volumes.

Ive said this before on threads like this Im a nursery nurse I trained for 2 years and have an NNEB diploma,I have 3 ds of my own, im trained in all aspects of your childs development,if left in my care whilst you their Mummy or Daddy is at work I will 'bring your child up professionally' Ill stimulate their development,Ill praise all their positives Ill pick them up when they tumble and hug them when theyre in need.....im not their parent but ill love them in your absence and if by leaving them with me it allows you to go and do your job as a Dr a lawyer a cook etc etc then it just goes to show we can all take pleasure in our work.

gay40 I think your comment was a bit out of order tbh.

halfrom only thing I can say to your last post is, has your DS1 not left home. A huge part of the uni experience is growing up by leaving the safety net of home. And you are thrown into a hall with other similarly situationed young people. The degree itself isn't much.

I agree with gay40. Halfrom seems to be doing a lot of stuff the dc's should be doing themselves imho.

It speaks voumes... I don't think you ever stop being a supportive mum. I know plenty of young people my sons age not capable of holding down a job let alone doing this attending uni on a course that also needs a work placement. He works a huge amount of hours and needs a car for which he has paid for completely by himself, insurance, lessons etc. I haven't given him anything except support. There is a job a bit further up the career ladder he would like to do and has an interview this week. I would have to be a hard cow not to want to help him. His tutors at uni would read through his work too if he stayed around instead of leaving on time to work, so whats wrong with that.
I am doing more at home than a person working as nobody can split themselves in half. Why should I feel the need to justify what I do. How could anybody including myself do as much as I do whilst at work. This isn't a criticism by the way but logistics. I don't spin out anything I do more because I want to thats all. The tutoring planning and resources can take me a morning a week. I'm sure a teacher would agree. I can't afford an independant school so I provide prep like they would get at such an establishment. I give some music lessons/theory. I teach sociology modules because I enjoy it and I see it as my job. My role includes everything to do with education and care when they are at home, I accompany dd to several activities where I wait and observe with other parents, 4 nights a week from 3.30pm - 7pm our after school club wouldn't take her, if she went there. I also supervise practice on 3 instruments and assist with choir she attends. All during hours I would be working for an employer.

No one has asked you to justify your lifestyle halfrom: you wrote about how you spend your day of your own accord.

The point is, other Parents ALSO raise their own children, and do just as good a job of it, they just do things differently to you. You have made the decision, with your husband, that you cannot combine bringing your children up how you want, with both of you working in your respective careers. That's fine, that's your decision.

But to imply, as you know very well you did, that working parents arent raising their children, is just mischievous at best, and quite nasty at worst .

My children didn't even know I went to work today. I baked all morning, did the washing and then did a food shop and prepared dinner, went to work and was back on the sofa before they'd got home from school. One has done her homework and gone out to play and the other is finishing his homework before he chills.

Tomorrow and Wednesday, they'll go to the childminder and only be away for an extra hour and a half from me. Instead they get to socialise with their friends and chill out and have fun at the childminders.

Thursday morning they get breakfast with Granny and Grandad before school and I'll be on the sofa before they leave school to come home.

We'll sit down to family meals round the table quite happily together chatting and spending time together. It's not about quantity for me but quality.

We all know working mothers are best for chidlren. Women at home tend to have failed at work or not been paritcularly bright so never really earned much. The ones who work often have the better qualifications and higher IQ and are better at child care and psychology as well. Everyone knows this but it is rarely said and if housewives want to suggest they are somehow doing better for their children working parents are more than capable of showing them that they are getting it very wrong and doing other women a disservice in the process.

Asd for how do working mothers manage it lots of us made wise career choices, earn 10x what our men do and find working is the right thing for us to do and of course is workable if you chose to be a surgeon not a care home worker. You make your bed and you lie on it.

Xenia! My sister has a 1st in Maths and Operational Research from Warwick University. She gave up work when her first was born - and has just started back FT (teaching Maths) 14 years later. She didn't HAVE to work, and with 3 small children, decided she didn't want to. That is not to say she spent all that time as a domestic skivvy. She has done lots of things, paid and unpaid. I went back to work when dd was 5 months old.

We chat every week - I can assure you that there have been times when I was and times when she was. It's all swings and roundabouts. Our kids all turned out OK.

Buto n the whole I am right. Jane left school with 2 GCSEs and worked in a call centre. When she married Bob who earned £20k a year she gave up work. Jill earns £100k as an accountant. She married Bert who earns £35k a year. When Jill had a baby she carried on working full time etc etc

Xenia. You're point isn't entirely fair. I am a fully qualified nursery nurse but was made redundant and I then took a minimum wage job in a shop.
My partner was also made redundant (on the same day) and had to get a job that involved him travelling almost 50 miles a day. We only have one car and live in the sticks so for me to get another nursery job we would have needed another car etc. He now works offshore so is not readily available for holiday child care etc (as I have already said)
What you say may well be your opinion but is very narrow minded and unfair when you look at different situations.

Oh shut up Xenia. I am a WOHM. I know SAHMs who have phds! It is a valid life choice and I respect it.

Bloody hell - you are all as bad as each other! Xenia telling SAHMs they are effectively mentally deficient and Halform running round waiting on a couple of young adults (because thats what they are) - thats not raising them, it's delaying their development.

I agree notyyummy- extremism isn't good, whichever camp people belong to. I hate the view that all SAHM are thick, as much as I hate the helicopter style parenting described above- I agree that it's not about raising a healthy young person, it's about an unhealthy over- involvement in their life

The reality for most people isn't extremism though. Most people aren't going to earn a million a year, and they aren't going to mollycoddle their kids, being there 24/7 until theyre adults either. Most of us cope with the day to day reality of bringing our children up to be happy, emotionally adjusted adults, while simultaneously getting on with the adult task of earning a living

You've proved my point exactly halfrom, you're not doing very much more than I'm doing and I'm working full time. Btw most teachers would not spend half a day doing "planning resources" for 2 grown up children and a schoolchild. As someone who does teach, I think you are indulging yourself.
I stand by my comment of spinning it out.

Gay- I also work full time, and support my teenagers with school work/ hobbies, transport them to activities, shop, cook, keep on top of running the home, and most importantly, sit and chat with my children. As does my husband. I entirely agree that it's perfectly possible to combine bringing up emotionally well adjusted and successful children, running a home and working

Ps- having said that, I resolutely refuse to live in my children's pockets- and would see it as failing my children badly if I spoofed them through every step of their life