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Original poster

I actually think he has a point...

166 replies

Gonzo33 · 04/03/2011 05:45

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1362589/Lord-Sugar-says-women-looking-job-tell-employers-plan-baby.html

I would be happy declaring whether or not I am going to have any more children and my child care arrangements. I am exceptionallly organised when it comes to these things though because I was a single parent who worked full time for many years.

What do you think?

OP posts:
ZacharyQuack · 04/03/2011 05:56

A lot of people don't know if they're going to have more children. They may want to, but it doesn't happen. Or they may not want to, but it does.

Some blokes chose to change their working hours when they have children. Should they disclose this at an interview?

Sometimes life doesn't go according to plan. I suspect Alan Sugar hasn't had to worry much about childcare in his life.

tribpot · 04/03/2011 06:28

"I say women should be forthcoming when being interviewed, declaring their status regarding children and childcare"

So only women have a 'status' regarding children and childcare?

flowery · 04/03/2011 09:25

Last time I checked it took two people to make a baby, and one of those has to be a man.

Men can take 6 months paternity leave now, and if they don't have adequate childcare they can't work either.

Katz · 04/03/2011 09:27

"I say women should be forthcoming when being interviewed, declaring their status regarding children and childcare"

I say if women started doing this they could kiss goodbye any chance they had at getting the job.

kitkatred · 04/03/2011 09:58

What Katz said...

BooyFuckingHoo · 04/03/2011 09:59

and what, men doing become parents when a child is born?

Sinkingfeeling · 04/03/2011 13:25

Totally agree with Katz - be honest and watch your career slip away? Crazy. Does Lord Sugar intend to ask men these questions in interviews too? I have no idea about his own family circumstances, but I wouldn't be surprised to hear that he had a SAH wife and therefore never needed to trouble himself about the complexities of juggling work and childcare.

emy72 · 04/03/2011 15:47

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha this made me laugh out loud.

I don't even get internal jobs if I happen to mention I have 4 children 6 years and under.

Now when people ask me "do you have children" - I answer yes - "how many/how old" - answer " ha ha you don't want to know". They don't generally probe further.

They might think I am awkward but at least I don't get discriminated against/judged or whatever. It's happened so many times when I've told the truth that I am not willing to chance it anymore!

It's not just about the childcare etc...but I found that a lot of men who have SAH wives tend to look on you as a "bad mother" and do make comments, which I find incredibly unprofessional and irritating.

Original poster
Gonzo33 · 04/03/2011 15:58

I do not believe for one minute that I would be committing career suicide by admitting that I have children. On many occasions during my career I have been asked if I have children and what my child care arrangements were. I have been offered the job every time, so I honestly do not believe that discrimination is as rife as it appears to be. I should say that my work is finance, so not a 9-5er.

OP posts:
hairylights · 04/03/2011 20:59

What a load if old shit. What business is it of employers. Like feck would I disclose such personal info.

TheFallenMadonna · 04/03/2011 21:11

My DC's school, fab though it is, just can't get their heads around the fact that DH is the first contact. When DD was ill the other day, they phoned my school. The receptionist had to come to my classroom, tell me the school had phoned, find another teacher to cover my class while I went and phoned DH, who then went to pick her up. Why couldn't they just have phoned him, like we asked them to, first off. And when DS had chicken pox, it was DH who "worked from home", because he can, and I can't. Our childcare arrangements are frankly more of an issue for DH's employers than mine.

MmeLindt · 05/03/2011 11:12

There may be some employers who would use the information carefully. Many would not.

What is the legal situation in UK? In Germany I believe that employers are not allowed to ask if you plan to have children.

MmeLindt · 05/03/2011 11:14

Ah, sorry. Read the article. Ignore my question.

Think he is talking out of his arse.

SueWhite · 05/03/2011 11:14

They aren't allowed to ask. I don't give a shit what Alan Sugar says, if someone asked me I would tell them it's illegal of them to ask.

PepsiPopcorn · 05/03/2011 11:41

It's illegal for good reason. Every employee is different and should be considered on their own merits regardless of family arrangements.

receiverofopiniongiver · 05/03/2011 12:03

Yes - I have done this already in interviews, as I had my children very young and can no longer have children. So I don't want any employer thinking for a second - 'has she got kids, will she want kids, she's prime age for kids etc' - so I've said something along the lines of, this job is the right job for me now in my career, as now that my children are older, and therefore more independent, I am able to develop myself now etc. I've been thanked and (offered the roles more importantly) for my upfront honesty.

WidowWadman · 05/03/2011 12:10

If it was up to the parents whether the male or female parent takes paternity/maternity leave, rather than a situation where it's either the mother giving up work for a significant amount of time or the child being put into daycare from 2 weeks old, then employers would feel much less inclined to discriminate against women of childbearing age.

Also, childcare is not only the mother's responsibility, so why should only women be quizzed about childcare arrangements?

PlasticLentilWeaver · 05/03/2011 12:10

I was open and upfront with my current employers. Told them I had one DC, wasn't planning any more. Told them we would shortly be moving further away from where the business is based, so how would they feel about me working from home once I was settled into role etc. Was also thanked for my honesty. And then I had a contraceptive f'up, and had DC2 exactly a year after starting the job. Blush Mortally embarrassed, but hey, they lived with it, and saw it as a positive opportunity to give one of the unsuccessful internal candidates some experience covering my job.

PepsiPopcorn · 05/03/2011 12:17

Don't you think people who are "upfront" about their family plans to potential employers are perpetuating the belief that this kind of sexism is OK? Fine for the person applying who's in the position to say they're not going to have children in the near future, but what about the other applicants who can't say that?

And who would want to work for an unenlightened, sexist employer anyway?

receiverofopiniongiver · 05/03/2011 12:21

I think that a business has to be run as a business. And whether it's liked or not having someone go off on maternity leave costs a business a lot of money.

And to have time off for personal family emergencies (e.g. childhood illnesses (chicken pox etc) let down in childcare) also costs the business money.

The majority of businesses particularly in this climate are having to count the pennies, and if it is the differnece in these additional costs or not, then reality is they will choose the lower costs.

BreastmilkDoesAFabLatte · 05/03/2011 12:30

"Last time I checked it took two people to make a baby, and one of those has to be a man."

And last time I checked most couples had two people potentially able to take on childcare responsibilities, and one of those could be a man.

So if women should declare their 'status', surely men should also be obliged to...?

PlasticLentilWeaver · 05/03/2011 12:33

I didn't feel my gender had anything to do it, just wanted them to know what they were getting, and be honest about that, and what my commitments outside of work were. The other candidates for the role were a recently married woman of similar age to me and a man, both internal and therefore known to the company.

Everyone's circumstances are different though. I didn't want a job that would involve a lot of short notice travel as my previous one had (DH was away a lot when I took this job, so I needed to be able to plan ahead), and wanted to be able to have a frank discussion about it and their expectations beforehand.

Northernlurker · 05/03/2011 12:35

He doesn't have a point.
People have families and lives outside work. Lots of things can impact on your working life. Children are just one of many things. Do we say 'No I'm not planning any more children, or for my partner to develop a life threatening illness or for me to fall down two steps, rick my back and be off work for three months or for my mother to die'?

I would strongly suggest any working women refuses to comment on any aspect of her personal life or plans. It WILL be used against you sadly.

WidowWadman · 05/03/2011 12:37

"And to have time off for personal family emergencies (e.g. childhood illnesses (chicken pox etc) let down in childcare) also costs the business money."

Does it? Isn't that usually unpaid leave?

PepsiPopcorn · 05/03/2011 12:38

Businesses can recover nearly all maternity pay costs from the government.

"having someone go off on maternity leave costs a business a lot of money."