I actually think he has a point...

[Gonzo33]

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1362589/Lord-Sugar-says-women-looking-job-tell-employers-plan-baby.html

I would be happy declaring whether or not I am going to have any more children and my child care arrangements. I am exceptionallly organised when it comes to these things though because I was a single parent who worked full time for many years.

What do you think?

What a load of old tosh. Why should women say if they plan to have a baby. When I was five I planned to fly to the moon - hasn't happened yet and may not in the future.

And agree with other posters as to why only women are being asked this question - men have babies too and - with more women earning more now it's not necessarily women who'll be taking parental leave/career breaks when children are young.

How about employers start asking if people are planning on caring for elderly relatives in the future so they can take that into account as well. Or if we're planning on becoming ill?

Lord Sugar, you need to step up work on inventing the employers' crystal ball (TM). Chop, chop!

Where I currently work if someone goes off on maternity leave - there has to be a 6 week handover, with the temp working at the same time as the person going off on maternity leave (those 6 weeks of dual pay cannot be recouped from government), there has to be 2 weeks handover when the person returns (this 2 weeks cannot be recouped from government).

As it is only a temporary role in a specialised environment agencies have to be used for recruitment, therefore the hourly rate of the person covering costs more than the person on maternity leave (this cannot be recouped from government).

As agency cannot do all the work that the person on maternity leave has left, the other team members have to pick up the work, resulting in an increased overtime bill for the duration of the maternity leave. This is not covered by the government.

To say that government covers maternity cost is a very naive view point.

Widowwadman it does cost the business money - because although it may be unpaid leave. A person is at work to do a job, if they are not there to do it somebody has to do this job for them.

If it is short term, normally the rest of the team pick up, which can result in a overtime cost, which due to the impact of work/life balance is paid at a higher rate.

New work can be lost if reduced team reducing the amount of income the business receive resulting in a 'cost' to the business.

If longer term, there are additional recruitment costs, temp workers, agency staff etc which are normally on a higher hourly rate (all in) than a member of staff.

I think the biggest problem is when you want to have a family and be a SAHM. I took my career very seriously and one day hope to return to it, it would be in tatters if I had had to say "oh yes I intend to leave once I have a family for a few years".
I never would have been offered a job at all.
As it is, I can jump back on the ladder when the kids are at school.

My DH runs his own company so I am fully aware of the issues for businesses, but at the end of the day, any employee can have a car crash and be off long term sick for a year, find another job and leave etc etc.

My DH doesn't agree

receiverofopiniongiver

A childcare emergency usually has the same implications as the actual worker falling ill. As for overtime cost etc, granted, I haven't factored that in, mostly as I work in an environment where there's no extra pay for overtime or time in lieu. Plus I'd usually work from home whilst doing emergency childcare.

What bollocks. You would get the same answer from everyone, because they want the job.

Plus things change.

I was asked in an RAF interview when I was 19 whether I intended to have kids. I think I said " god no" or something along those lines. 10 years later I was pregnant.

I don't intend to have any more, but if we had an accident, there would be no abortion.

I think there is a big difference to a life choice, and a crisis occuring.

Hence why you can get insurance for sickness etc, but not for maternity leave!!!

It does depend on the attitude of the employee though - if a childcare emergency is you needing a couple of hours to sort out getting your child elsewhere (be it to a friend if necessary to enable you to work), or it is taken as my CM has let me down, I can't work for the rest of the week.

Just a remark about business costs. It is not all down to headline short term figures. I worked 2.5 years for one and over 10 years for another company, absolute leaders in their field, direct competitors. Those companies are absolutely obsessed with results, more so than companies in any other field (trading teams in famous investment banks). One takes a very predatorial approach to its employees - all at their desks just after 7am, lucky to go home before 8pm, frequent weekend work, travel at short notice, very very negative view on annual leave (so much so that some did not take more than 1 or 2 weeks a year), do not even start with maternity (very small number of women in the team, when I joined I was the only one of three women in the team of 120) etc, etc.
The other is completely different. Very supportive, environment, decent acceptable hours, still a lot of pressure and stress but in a different contest iynwim. A lot more women employees because, no issue to come in late if something is wrong with childcare; maternity leave, annual holidays - no problem. Nobody ever abused the trust. Total shock to me after seeing 'the dark side'. The results - almost identical. Company 1 - huge hr turnover, Company 2 - people hardly ever left. Go figure!

(I appreciate that these businesses are different to small companies, but the argument of costs is not as universal as some would like to present. Alan Sugar should move forward into the 21 century, no go back to the 19th!)

Took me 8 years to have my first dd... should I have kept my employer informed of every miscarriage I had? What nonsense. I feel pretty strongly about his as after two dds I find myself unemployable because employers seem to think I'll drop a third or won't be able to juggle childcare with long hours. Lovely.

But do you allow them to just carry on 'thinking' it - or is it not better for you to say:

"I've had my two that's us done, childcare is no problem, due to x reasons, these are my back up plans, therefore when the business requires it I am able to do the long hours."

Resulting in:

"BabyGiraffes - thank you very much for your honesty, now that we can see your side, when would you like to start?!"

Nope, didn't work. Tried that two weeks ago... Made it clear that I didn't intend to have any more. Still leaves childcare and school run.

Exactly bemybebe, I did not, and do not want to work for company no 1 in your example. For me, being honest about my needs from them meant I wasn't getting into a company that would make me f'ing miserable (again).

But, I am good at what I do, and had the confidence to be able to sell myself. Others might not.

Of course he has a point Gonzo!

In your world.

He will also have a point when he expects to know how old and in what precise state of health your parents are / if your existing children have any form of special needs / if you have ever suffered from depression/ what medication you take or have ever taken and finally...when he wants to see the certificate that shows you've had a hysterectomy to prove that you will not be having any more children (presumably at the same time you sign a declaration stating you will not be adopting or fostering or appear in anyone's will as their children's guardian).

I don't think I want to live in your world. All my employer should need to know is that out of the potential candidates I have the best skills, knowledge and experience for the job.

But that's why you explain how you will rectify the childcare and school run.

Either by saying I will be employing CM/Nanny, using before/after school clubs, dp will be doing it etc, or 'can you accommodate a 9.30am start time, and end of day is not an issue, as dp is home to do after school etc'.

I think the key is all about communication.

If an employer can't ask the questions, and an employee doesn't give the answers to the unanswered queestion then assumptions are made.

Or you could avoid going into those sorts of long detailed explanations about child minders, availability of parents to assist, after school clubs, school runs etc etc by employers sticking to their legal obligation to butt out of whether people have or intend to have children.

I would never do this. In fact I didn't even disclose I was 5 months pregnant when I got my current job, until I was actually in the interview. Too risky.

Pepsi sadly you will find that most employers both men and women are unenlightened and sexist when it comes to employing women of child bearing age!

But the assumption should be that the employee will do their job and sort out their personal life.

Otherwise how detailed would every employee's questionnaire be!

E.g.

• what are your childcare arrangements so you can come to work
• what are your housekeeping arrangements so that you come to work in clean clothes
• what are your cooking arrangements so that you eat enough to work properly and do you have at least 5 fruit and veg a day?
• what are your eldercare arrangements?
• what are your arrangements if you suddenly have to take on more responsibility e.g. your sister dies and you take on her children, your partner has a stroke, etc.?
• do you drink alcohol? how much?
• do you smoke? how much?
• do you have family history of breast cancer, if so, what age would you expect to get sick, if at all?

No-one can guarantee to an employer that they will be able to work all hours for a period of say, 4 years.

It is the business's duty to manage their resources appropriately, and employees are a very very important resource!

What is "child bearing age" anyway? Women can have children at pretty much any age between 16-70 these days.

anything between 16 and 45 I reckon. So by disclosing your intentions re having children you are giving an employer the ideal opportunity to discriminate.

I work as a nanny. I'm 34 and in a long term relationship. If i declared my desperation to have children would you hire me? Thought not. Yet we need 2 wages coming to pay the mortgage and bills. So when potential employers ask me (which they always do despite it being illegal) I lie and say we're not planning on having kids. I worry if I refuse to answer then they will peg me a difficult or dishonest and not hire me.

This man is an arse!

Employers should set out their expectations of hours, flexibility, travel etc. and ask if you can meet them. If you say you can that should be good enough. You shouldn't have to explain or justify how or why.