Where did the 'fact' that puberty blockers are reversible come from?

WarriorN · 2023-08-25T13:52:27+00:00

Following the Roisin Murphy thread where a poster on a forum that was linked stated: "puberty blockers are reversible, fact" Does anyone know exactly what the evidence for that claim was based on originally? Bits I've read by Michael Biggs weave a tangled tale of clinicians saying It Is So but no real scientific evidence?

Original poster

WarriorN · 25/08/2023 14:53

Also inspired by this thread.

Guardian describes puberty blockers as fully reversible www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4878062-guardian-describes-puberty-blockers-as-fully-reversible

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Original poster

WarriorN · 25/08/2023 14:54

Linking the articles/ papers I've read

users.ox.ac.uk/~sfos0060/Biggs_ExperimentPubertyBlockers.pdf

www.transgendertrend.com/the-tavistocks-experiment-with-puberty-blockers-part-5-the-belated-results/

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Original poster

WarriorN · 25/08/2023 14:57

And this is a reference from the transgender trend part 5

Which is really fascinating but the key fact still seems to be here-say

www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/0092623X.2022.2121238

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MrsPepperp0t · 25/08/2023 14:59

I don't know about any evidence/studies but had always assumed it was part of the "post-truth era" that we seem to be in. Not just in the field of transgenderism, but everywhere. Say something untrue, repeat it often enough, and people will accept it as fact

Wolfparty · 25/08/2023 14:59

I am in the process of getting my son treated for precocious puberty so have been doing a lot of reading on this. It does seem from what I have read and been told by his consultant that they are reversible in that they are just a "pause". I'm still unsure about going down this road because of some side effects though. It's a very tricky decision.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 25/08/2023 15:02

Is it perhaps that they are reversible when used to halt precocious puberty and then resume puberty at the "normal" time?

This is different from taking puberty blockers so that a child never goes through puberty?

AuntieEsther · 25/08/2023 15:06

They are 'reversible' if the child stops taking them at the appropriate point because their natural puberty will start again when they stop the blocker.
they aren't reversible when used past the age and stage of natural puberty. If you block puberty and stop taking the blocker at age 18 there is no evidence that natural puberty will start. The stage of puberty development has been passed.

dolorsit · 25/08/2023 15:06

In medical terms they are irreversible in that once you stop taking them hormone production will resume.

What may not be irreversible is the impact of having stopped hormone production for a period of time.

Original poster

WarriorN · 25/08/2023 15:07

I'm sorry Wolf, this can't be easy to read.

However, I think the timing is all v different isn't it for that condition?

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BonfireLady · 25/08/2023 15:09

Wolfparty · 25/08/2023 14:59

I am in the process of getting my son treated for precocious puberty so have been doing a lot of reading on this. It does seem from what I have read and been told by his consultant that they are reversible in that they are just a "pause". I'm still unsure about going down this road because of some side effects though. It's a very tricky decision.

They are totally safe in this scenario. It's what they are licensed to treat.

They are used off-licence to stop puberty all together in "gender affirming care". When the child is old enough they are then given the option (98% take it) of going on to cross sex hormones. These are synthetic and won't lead to puberty of the opposite sex but will allow the body to great physical sexual characteristics that mimic the opposite sex. But the child goes through no puberty.

BonfireLady · 25/08/2023 15:10

*to create

Original poster

WarriorN · 25/08/2023 15:11

So they just transferred the evidence from the context of precocious puberty to gender affirming care?

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napody · 25/08/2023 15:12

dolorsit · 25/08/2023 15:06

In medical terms they are irreversible in that once you stop taking them hormone production will resume.

What may not be irreversible is the impact of having stopped hormone production for a period of time.

This (barring typo in first sentence) is such a clear explanation of the distinction, thanks.

BonfireLady · 25/08/2023 15:14

I suspect that the statement that they are reversible came from the fact that they are (more specifically they will be negated) when stopped for precocious puberty.
As far as I know, the medical industry doesn't make statements relating to off-licence use because anything used in this way hasn't been through clinical trials and approval.
So medics who use this statement to describe off-licence use are either ignorant of that or deliberately using a statement in the wrong context.

Original poster

WarriorN · 25/08/2023 15:15

Yes it is, thanks dolorsit

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Original poster

WarriorN · 25/08/2023 15:17

It would be good to find some sort of medical research guidance that states exactly what you've said bonfire.

Because as far as I can tell, it's all basically been a myth that spun out it control.

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AuntieEsther · 25/08/2023 15:17

Irreversible means the opposite of reversible by the way! Two PP have used it interchangeably so far 😁

Original poster

WarriorN · 25/08/2023 15:20

In medical terms they are reversible in that once you stop taking them hormone production will resume.

What may not be reversible is the impact of having stopped hormone production for a period of time

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Wolfparty · 25/08/2023 15:21

What may not be irreversible is the impact of having stopped hormone production for a period of time.

Yes this is my worry, that bone density for example may never recover.

Helleofabore · 25/08/2023 15:23

The negative side effects for Lupron for precocious puberty tended to occur in adulthood. It is then that the women who had taken it for precocious puberty reported the many issues they had and started to track where it started.

But as far as 'puberty' was concerned, yes, their puberty resumed.

FrancescaContini · 25/08/2023 15:23

Confusing thread title - did you mean “reversible”?

Wolfparty · 25/08/2023 15:25

Helleofabore · 25/08/2023 15:23

The negative side effects for Lupron for precocious puberty tended to occur in adulthood. It is then that the women who had taken it for precocious puberty reported the many issues they had and started to track where it started.

But as far as 'puberty' was concerned, yes, their puberty resumed.

Really don't mean this to sound snippy but why have you put puberty in inverted commas? Is your point that it's not a real puberty?

SamphiretheTervosaurReturneth · 25/08/2023 15:29

Probably from their proper use, for kids with precocious puberty, it is fully reversible in that when they stop taking them puberty carries on, having been paused.

If you don't have PP then you are preventing normal puberty from happening - and they tend to prescribe them for far longer to "trans kids"

Helleofabore · 25/08/2023 15:33

Wolfparty · 25/08/2023 15:25

Really don't mean this to sound snippy but why have you put puberty in inverted commas? Is your point that it's not a real puberty?

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No. I am pointing out that puberty resumed, but that later many of these women had significant issues that were irreversible. The future health issues, bone density was just one of a long list, were not reversible was my point.

My comment was in regards to Lupron and its effects on female bodies for precocious puberty.

Wolfparty · 25/08/2023 15:34

Helleofabore · 25/08/2023 15:33

No. I am pointing out that puberty resumed, but that later many of these women had significant issues that were irreversible. The future health issues, bone density was just one of a long list, were not reversible was my point.

My comment was in regards to Lupron and its effects on female bodies for precocious puberty.

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Understood, thanks.