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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

Thrown off Hinge

139 replies

Justwrong68 · 09/09/2023 12:49

I saw a trans woman on my hinge feed with a photo of them holding a "terf tears" cup. I messaged that they should ditch the offensive cup if they want a date. The convo started and I said I wasn't trans exclusionary or radical but didn't think it possible to change sex. I was subjected to the usual aggression and condescension plus links to books about trans journeys. I said I didn't need education on the subject but I sincerely wish you well. This morning I couldn't log in, my account was shut down and was given a link to appeal.
I've emailed to say I've been removed without warning or notification.
They're allowed to kick off whoever they like I assume but is there anything I can do? Surely people on Hinge have varying beliefs...

OP posts:
Original poster
Justwrong68 · 10/09/2023 23:14

You could have sent a message about the cup, then reported and blocked but it seemed like you wanted a "robust debate" on a dating site. As you've witnessed, it gets you banned.

hits nail on head
Apart from a couple of trans academics who give their opinion, it's impossible to even mention the subject, let alone have a discussion. I've admitted to being facetious, but the messaging facility often involves serious conversations, it's never "do you fancy a drink?" "Yes" THE END. Where are we if we can't say: you'll get more dates without the offensive mug, without getting kicked off? I think certain subjects around the debate are taboo which is extremely dangerous (see Roisin Murphy). I know a teacher and a lecturer who are all but living double lives because they can't state biological fact at work and they're far from isolated.
It's terrifying.

OP posts:
PrimitivePerson · 10/09/2023 23:30

Justwrong68 · 10/09/2023 23:14

You could have sent a message about the cup, then reported and blocked but it seemed like you wanted a "robust debate" on a dating site. As you've witnessed, it gets you banned.

hits nail on head
Apart from a couple of trans academics who give their opinion, it's impossible to even mention the subject, let alone have a discussion. I've admitted to being facetious, but the messaging facility often involves serious conversations, it's never "do you fancy a drink?" "Yes" THE END. Where are we if we can't say: you'll get more dates without the offensive mug, without getting kicked off? I think certain subjects around the debate are taboo which is extremely dangerous (see Roisin Murphy). I know a teacher and a lecturer who are all but living double lives because they can't state biological fact at work and they're far from isolated.
It's terrifying.

Please stop trying to justify your actions. This is a dating site. It's not academia, it's not a work place, and it's not a conscience or freedom of speech issue.

Someone took offence at your unwelcome comments and reported you. Please stop acting like you're some sort of victim.

WunWun · 11/09/2023 00:08

You didn't want to date them, so you shouldn't have contacted them. So how serious dating conversations are generally isn't relevant

MargotBamborough · 11/09/2023 08:04

Justwrong68 · 10/09/2023 23:14

You could have sent a message about the cup, then reported and blocked but it seemed like you wanted a "robust debate" on a dating site. As you've witnessed, it gets you banned.

hits nail on head
Apart from a couple of trans academics who give their opinion, it's impossible to even mention the subject, let alone have a discussion. I've admitted to being facetious, but the messaging facility often involves serious conversations, it's never "do you fancy a drink?" "Yes" THE END. Where are we if we can't say: you'll get more dates without the offensive mug, without getting kicked off? I think certain subjects around the debate are taboo which is extremely dangerous (see Roisin Murphy). I know a teacher and a lecturer who are all but living double lives because they can't state biological fact at work and they're far from isolated.
It's terrifying.

Yes but if I saw someone on a dating site wearing a T-shirt saying "abortion is murder", I wouldn't message them and say I might be up for a date if they were wearing a less offensive T-shirt.

I might report them to the app.

I certainly wouldn't engage with them.

Because I don't want to go on a date with that person even if they take that photo down.

And you don't want to go on a date with someone wearing a T-shirt that says "TERF tears" because you already know just from looking at them that their views are completely incompatible with yours.

Yes, some people are happy to be in relationships with people whose political views don't align with their own. But they don't tend to make their profile picture something that immediately invites controversy. At best, if they wanted to avoid wasting their time, they might have a completely normal profile picture and then in their bio write something like "unrepentant Tory boy" or "trans rights are human rights" to signal what is important to them. And if that isn't your thing you leave them alone.

This person was deliberately fishing and you took the bait.

Original poster
Justwrong68 · 12/09/2023 07:14

Boiled down: I was banned for saying sex is immutable. Regardless of who I said it to or what platform, or how entitled you think I am; this is where we are now.

OP posts:
Flickersy · 12/09/2023 07:28

Justwrong68 · 12/09/2023 07:14

Boiled down: I was banned for saying sex is immutable. Regardless of who I said it to or what platform, or how entitled you think I am; this is where we are now.

No, you were banned for attacking another user. A dating app is not the place to seek out debate, even if that really was your genuine intention.

You started this - it's your own fault. Stop trying to make out that you're the victim here.

MargotBamborough · 12/09/2023 07:38

Perhaps we should put this to the test. Two Mumsnet users could create fake Hinge profiles and start chatting to each other as though they are interested in a date, then they could just casually start talking about trans rights and one could say, "I support trans people and respect people's right not to be discriminated against due to their gender identity but I don't believe that humans can change sex" and the other could report them to Hinge and see what happens.

WunWun · 12/09/2023 07:48

Justwrong68 · 12/09/2023 07:14

Boiled down: I was banned for saying sex is immutable. Regardless of who I said it to or what platform, or how entitled you think I am; this is where we are now.

This isn't even vaguely true. The app is for dating, nothing else. You had no business messaging them at all. That's why you were banned.

WunWun · 12/09/2023 07:49

MargotBamborough · 12/09/2023 07:38

Perhaps we should put this to the test. Two Mumsnet users could create fake Hinge profiles and start chatting to each other as though they are interested in a date, then they could just casually start talking about trans rights and one could say, "I support trans people and respect people's right not to be discriminated against due to their gender identity but I don't believe that humans can change sex" and the other could report them to Hinge and see what happens.

Nothing would happen unless either of them reported it!

Flickersy · 12/09/2023 07:50

MargotBamborough · 12/09/2023 07:38

Perhaps we should put this to the test. Two Mumsnet users could create fake Hinge profiles and start chatting to each other as though they are interested in a date, then they could just casually start talking about trans rights and one could say, "I support trans people and respect people's right not to be discriminated against due to their gender identity but I don't believe that humans can change sex" and the other could report them to Hinge and see what happens.

I think you'd have to give a reason as to why you're reporting that and their support team would react accordingly.

The part OP fell foul of, quite aside from common sense and basic decency, was this part of the rules:

"We encourage Hinge Daters to respect the opinions of others, even when they don't agree with them, and simply skip or remove users they aren't interested in. Commenting or matching with someone with the sole intention of antagonizing them for their beliefs is misaligned with our values of empathy and kindness"

MargotBamborough · 12/09/2023 07:56

WunWun · 12/09/2023 07:49

Nothing would happen unless either of them reported it!

Show quote history

Well yes, that's why I said the other fake user should report it.

To see whether you can get banned just from expressing the view that humans can't change sex as part of a perfectly civilised conversation, or whether it was initiating a conversation with this person for the express purpose of antagonising them that got you banned.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 12/09/2023 08:14

This person was deliberately fishing and you took the bait.

YY.

EasternStandard · 12/09/2023 08:16

A dating site has different purpose and you can see in their rules it is for dating only not debate

If this tshirt had had another group before the tears part I’d hope someone would report and the image would be taken down / replaced

Just do that, report but don’t engage

PrimitivePerson · 12/09/2023 08:24

Flickersy · 12/09/2023 07:50

I think you'd have to give a reason as to why you're reporting that and their support team would react accordingly.

The part OP fell foul of, quite aside from common sense and basic decency, was this part of the rules:

"We encourage Hinge Daters to respect the opinions of others, even when they don't agree with them, and simply skip or remove users they aren't interested in. Commenting or matching with someone with the sole intention of antagonizing them for their beliefs is misaligned with our values of empathy and kindness"

Show quote history

"Sole intention of antagonizing" - well, quite.

EasternStandard · 12/09/2023 08:26

Those values of kindness and not antagonising go both ways though

You wouldn’t be able to wear a tshirt with an offensive slogan to a minority group - I assume

Flickersy · 12/09/2023 09:08

EasternStandard · 12/09/2023 08:26

Those values of kindness and not antagonising go both ways though

You wouldn’t be able to wear a tshirt with an offensive slogan to a minority group - I assume

Yes, and what OP should have done is reported the photo and blocked the user.

Instead she picked a fight and immediately lost any possible moral high ground.

RebelliousCow · 12/09/2023 09:36

Calistano · 09/09/2023 13:22

Why confront them? The pool of people willing to date them is self limiting anyway. I think you were in the wrong. People are allowed to believe what they want.

When you make politically charged statements on a public forum it is no longer a private matter.

RebelliousCow · 12/09/2023 09:37

Calistano · 09/09/2023 13:28

Confront what you want, get banned. Seriously it's fine to be gender critical I am too, it's not your right to assert your views on random people though. They are allowed to not agree with you.

The person pushing the terf narrative was the person who initiated the confrontation.

RebelliousCow · 12/09/2023 09:38

Calistano · 09/09/2023 13:33

Tbh transphobic gets chucked about a lot, this is actually transphobic though. Get a grip.

The terf comments are misogynistic.

RebelliousCow · 12/09/2023 09:40

Calistano · 09/09/2023 13:51

Seriously you did not need to engage with that person. You are bringing a terrible name to gender critical people. I guess tolerance is not your middle name.

Are you being ironic here, and not just totally un-self reflective?

SingingKlingon · 12/09/2023 09:40

Justwrong68 · 12/09/2023 07:14

Boiled down: I was banned for saying sex is immutable. Regardless of who I said it to or what platform, or how entitled you think I am; this is where we are now.

This isn't quite correct! You were on a dating site to contact people you fancy.

Not to have an in-depth discussion.

You should have reported the picture and moved on. Why engage? You were confrontational, same as if I contacted someone about their picture of fox hunting, it's not what Hinge is for. OLD isn't for discussions it's for dating!

Think you've been on twitter too long ;)

On a side note there seems to be loads more trans people on OLD, I'd say one in 20. I often wonder if they get any matches.

Insommmmnia · 12/09/2023 09:42

Boiled down: I was banned for saying sex is immutable. Regardless of who I said it to or what platform, or how entitled you think I am; this is where we are now.

No you weren't.

That's not to say this might not happen on Hinge, I don't know. But in this instance you were banned for breaking the terms of use. The subject matter is irrelevant.

Zodfa · 12/09/2023 09:50

Not sure anyone comes across terribly wrong here. The trans person's photo sounds nasty and antagonistic, quite apart from the ensuing events. Like the OP, I don't understand why so many trans people seem to go out of their way to make themselves unlikeable. Especially on a dating app of all places, a place where the point is to make people like you. Presumably trans people don't find it easy to get dates as it is.

MargotBamborough · 12/09/2023 09:51

EasternStandard · 12/09/2023 08:26

Those values of kindness and not antagonising go both ways though

You wouldn’t be able to wear a tshirt with an offensive slogan to a minority group - I assume

No, you wouldn't.

So the best approach would have been the report the person and explain to Hinge exactly why TERF is an offensive term about a group of people on the basis of their legally protected belief that humans can't change sex, and perhaps link to some examples of how it is used by trans activist extremists to harass and abuse women.

But because the OP behaved in the way she did, she got banned and lost the chance to have that conversation, and the people at Hinge will continue to think that using the word TERF is completely fine, and didn't the OP just prove their point about what awful people TERFs are.

Original poster
Justwrong68 · 12/09/2023 10:59

@Insommmmnia how do you know?

OP posts: