Recommend me a book!

[RibenaBerry]

Right, reading these boards recently has given me a bit of a kick up the arse on my feminist principles. I've done a bit of 'light' reading in the area (think The Beauty Myth as a teenager) but think I need something a bit more serious without being so weighty I never pick it up. I'd rather have something published in, say, the last 15 years than any of the 'classics'.

Any ideas?

It's relevant to the trans argument because the entire problem, the entire problem is that women are regarded as subhuman second class citizens.
I fail to see how men who want to be women can give credence to the idea that women are real, living, real, actual human beings in their own right.
In fact I rather think it reinforces the idea that women don't quite exist as a group.
Which is an ideology that is incredibly dangerous to women.

Trans women have the right to live as they like, as women, and be called 'she' and 'her', because that's obviously their main concern.
When they start nosing in on the feminist movement and re-directing it, and shouting down women's views they are behaving like members of the privileged sex that they are.

"would you allow youre son to wear a dress in public?[be honest]"

Good argument. Much better to pretend women don't exist than to let a boy wear a dress

Shit Sakura, I missed that implication.

Would I let a boy wear a dress?
Or would I have him re-assigned?

Better have him re-assigned. DOn't want him to be a.....queer

FFS

Trans is so right-wing conservative

Taking that argument to its logical conclusion, could it be that pro-trans parents, the ones who want to meddle with their child's puberty because he doesn't slot into the right 'boy' category of behaviour, are homophobic?

sakura
"much better to pretend that women dont exist...........]
what on earth are you on about!!

[trans is so right-wing conservitive]
is it Sakura-thanks for telling me-
i dont even know what this means-and actually-im not into politics-as i dont understand it-im just interested in things like debate/discussion/learning from others/saying my views on things/hearing what others have to say!

[.......the ones that want to meddle in......]
Sakura-why are you making assumptions?
also-why are you also assuming that im homophobic?
actually-im probebly the least homophobic person you could ever meet!

are you scared of transpeople Sakura?
[id thought id better ask and not just make a assumption]
do you dislike/hate transpeople?
and do you not accept transpeople?if not-why not?

"and do you not accept transpeople?if not-why not? "

35 pages of explanation and you still don't know!!!
It's true that some people can only understand the reality they know.
If you want to know why not, read the thread then get back to me.

"what on earth are you on about!!"

Ask earwicga,
she reckons women are a "state of mind"

"actually-im probebly the least homophobic person you could ever meet!"

Not really, if you support the idea that gender reassignment is a better outcome for a boy than wearing a dress.

wastingaway
[....missed this implication]

no this wasnt the implacation at all-
this would be a really stupid implacation since you havent said youre child had gid!
actually-you said something that interested me-thats why i asked the question!

sparky, she was refering to TSH, not you.

sakura
well-there you go again!
who said that i support the idea that gender reassignment is a better outcome for a boy than wearing a dress?
not me-i understand gid-so i know the diffrence between gid and a boy wishing to wear a dress!

sparky, this thread is not about gid. you are totally derailing here and it's obvious.
gid people are a specific case, and they are all variations of XY, so boys.
As with all human beings, they are welcome to associate themselves with whichever gender role they prefer.
The existence of gid does not "prove" that the sex lines can be crossed, however.

If you read the thread you will understand why radical feminists have a BIG problem with males claiming they are women.

Nobody has a problem with anyone living as women. That's perfectly fine.

But look, it's really obvious you haven't read the thread or the arguments.

Hey sparky,

I'd hate to put this down like this really. This When being opressive and women saying we won't take this anymore are two different things in my book, I sort of thinking it like the Klan complaining that black strong civil rights activists that there views weren't considered.

When really what was happening was people saying enough is enough. I think opression is borne from ignorance and insecurity, and generally i fell most feminists that I know are painfully aware of the world and don't have such a traditional view of things and are open to discussion.

sakura
no-im not derailing it-
ive just posted what i did in answer to the posts that came after mine!
i was actually asking Wastingaway a question!actually-i am reading the thread and im finding it really interesting!
i tend to like to try and look at all angles of things-hence my questions ect-im not trying to argue or have some weird motive to my questions-
im thinking about what has been said on here and what i feel/think myself-and as i said-interesting!

Selacious, I've just written that two women a week are murdered in the UK at the hands of their spouse. What real world do you live in?
I read yesterday a passage by Dworkin about a man in the US who brutally raped a teenage girl then cut off her arms. He threw some money onto her bleeding and dying body.
In court he said she was 'complicit', meaning because he'd paid her he had the right to her body. As Dworkin astutely noted: if he hadn't cut off her arms, he would probably have got away with it by claiming she was a prostitute.

This is the real world. This is women's reality. This is the type of dehumanization of women that radical feminists are fighting against.

I don't think any other world is important on the feminist threads.

sparky,
ok, that's cool. I'm happy to answer any questions you have. I'm a bit sensitive though after the police threats.

hey Selaciouscrumb-
thankyou!
[...........this is when being oppressive........]
yep-ok[nodding]i can go with that!

[..i think that opression is borne from ignorance and insucrity...........]

yes-i couldnt agree more!
the experiance of opression/predujuice has just brought me here Selaciouscrumb!

Were you watching Mitchell and Webb last night?

Well then be thankful that I have no gun.

It's "Recommend a book to me"!!!!!!

So, sorry, I just had to let it out!!

the problem I have is that it increasingly seems that trans women's experiences of oppression and ignorance are more important than the daily brutalities enacted upon women all over the world plus oppression and ignorance to boot.

Again, it is really obvious you haven't read the thread and don't understand the arguments of radical feminists.

Nobody is saying trans women can't live as women.

?

"Well then be thankful that I have no gun"

Why, would you shoot me?

If you didn't see Mitchell and Webb last night my post makes no sense at all.

im not threatening you with the police Sakura
ias ive said before-i dont want to fight!
i have experianced predujice/hate/oppression greatly in my life-and its still happening!
i find that ignorance is not bliss-and its only by talking/listening-that ignorance goes away!
y