Recommend me a book!

[RibenaBerry]

Right, reading these boards recently has given me a bit of a kick up the arse on my feminist principles. I've done a bit of 'light' reading in the area (think The Beauty Myth as a teenager) but think I need something a bit more serious without being so weighty I never pick it up. I'd rather have something published in, say, the last 15 years than any of the 'classics'.

Any ideas?

eawicga, your behaviour is exactly what I meant when I said those who support trans women have male privilege on their side. Feminists, by comparison, have a tiny tiny voice in the public sphere compared to trans women's enormous platform. Everybody knows trans women's POV. Very few people know, or understand the view of radical feminists because it gets no air time. Any feminist tries to air their view gets shouted down or threatened with the police in the manner of this thread. Silencing women is not feminist and therefore I cannot believe that trans women are feminists.
To hear trans women tell it, you'd think they were the only ones who despised their bodies, or who suffered in society. When something happens to women, well, that's just to be expected. But when something bad happens to XY people, any XY people, they are outraged. And then even more outraged that a few disobedient women won't tow their party line to make life better for them, even at the expense of women.

sparky
"society is going to have to accept at some point that transpeople do exist/have the right to exist/have the right not to be abused[ie you dont exist-or youre basically a non person]"

The problem is, you see, is that feminists' job is to fight for women not to be regarded as non-people, for women to have the right to exist and be regarded as human. If trans women believe that women are already regarded as human then they clearly have no idea about women.
All people have the right to be regarded as human, but feminists' job is to fight for women, first and foremost. Patriarchy is institutional male power. Patriarchy will not accept members of their own sex who do not behave a particular way.
Trans women have different concerns to women because they do not share the same biology. ANd at any rate, they have lots of women tending to their needs.
Women have the right not to raped and murdered. Two women a week are murdered in the UK at the hands of a spouse. Domestic violence towards women increases when they're pregnant. Violence, murder and rape in films and in the media towards women is entertainment, fun. Trans women are only interested in their own concerns because women's concerns, such as abortion and the right of women not to be battered in pregnancy, do not concern them in the same way that they concern XX people.

Sakura
firstly thankyou for explaining what patriarchy means
yes i can see what youre saying and i agree with some of the things that you are saying!
yep-theres some things that transwomen have a diffrence with[childbirth/periods ect ect]

[patriarchy will not accept members of their own sex.............]
yes but Sakura-transwomen are not members of
their own sex-or they wouldnt be transwomen!

by not accepting that transwomen are women-
is this not a form of Patriarchy?[female version]
[i hope this is not offensive-not meaning to be]

BTW-im not ignoring whats been said about feminism and womens issues-
im finding it interesting!
obviously-you feel strongly about what you feel and i feel strongly about what i feel-
and im trying to think of a way to get past this!

Hey sparky,

"by not accepting that transwomen are women is this not a form of Patriarchy? "

i would say not. Statistically there are more women in this country than men, but still patriarchy allows the minority to hold the power. Absolute power corrupts absolutely .

To liken patriarchy to matriarchy I think is tenuous. Feminism is about defending the rights of women to exist and be recognised, not to oppress . Feminism draws a line in the sand and women stand behind and say enough is enough and they try and push that line forward and break down barriers put in place by a male engineered society.

lost my flow there, got caught on a long phone call

I disagree TSH - it clearly (even in so-called civilised nations) is a mans world. We have come along way, but equality - nope - still doesn't exist, and yes, I agree that men suffer prejudice, gender stereotyping etc. etc. but no where near to the same degree as women.

oh fgs another "waht about the men" post.

If you can't see the systematic nature of mysogny, versus the odd irrelevant man-hater, then you need to do an awful lot more reading. I think there were a few good books recommended about a million posts ago.

How do you quantify it?

Well, you could look at the rape statistics, the conviction rates, the respective wages of men and women, the fact men own most property, men are in the top jobs, most of the worst paid jobs are done by women, men have more leisure time than women etc. etc. - there are masses of ways of quantifying it.

But this isn't really the thread to do that.

I'm very surprised to read that you think there are countries where it not a "man's world". I reckon even most men would raise an eyebrow at that.

TheShriekingHarpy, please don't lose sight of why women (have to) use refuge centres, rape crisis and womens aid.

hey Selaciouscrumb
thankyou-right got you
yes-but in this-the oppressed can become the oppressers!
then everyones beating each other with sticks-and nothing really changes-
because its still oppression-just diffrent oppression-and this cant be right can it!
its like hate breeding hate breeding hate.....................

Theshriekingharpy, why are you making these points on this thread? If you don't believe that women suffer inequality in the UK, why are you on a feminism thread, and why particularly this thread?

I don't think anyone thinks that only women as a discrete group experience injustice.
Just that the injustice we experience is particular to being a woman.

I think it's bad that anyone has to suffer, but we all choose where to focus our energies.

I'm a member of Baby Milk Action and buy RNLI christmas cards.
Just because I don't donate to Water Aid doesn't mean that I don't acknowledge that some people are in need of clean water and wish that that weren't the case.

I consider bringing my son up to believe that he can wear what he wants and do what he wants as long as he treats others well is part of my being feminist.

Feminists fight against all gender stereotyping, surely?

theshriekingharpy-
well said!!

wastingaway-
would you allow youre son to wear a dress in public?[be honest]

Sparky, it's difficult to imagine being in that position to be honest, he's only two.

For me, I'd have no problem. It's others reactions I'd worry about, and I think until he was old enough to understand that he might get the shit kicked out of him I probably wouldn't.
It's a really rough reactionary part of the country though and the smallest break from the norm can get people's backs up.

I don't think anyone is claiming women have a monopoly on it. But this is a feminist thread so clearly that will be the the focus of our attention.....

This entire thread has been a "what about the menz" argument.
If you're only on here to tell women they should be looking after other people(that is women's role in life, after all ) then what's the point in feminism at all?
Feminism's priority first and foremost is women.
Radical feminists' priority is to route out anything, anything at all that may be harmful to the cause. That is their duty; that is their job.
If you don't agree, we won't call the police on you.
And we couldn't even if we wanted to because what women think is important isn't enshrined by law. Proles e-mailed her MP about this new rapist-protector law and he didn't bother getting back to her on it. Thankfully, Harriet Harman did mail her back.
Violence and murder against women is just part of the wallpaper. I waas shocked to read that statistic in The Equality Illusion: 2 women a week are murdered in the UK alone.
Any other group and there'd be a national outcry. Because it's women nobody except radical feminists know or care about it
2 women a week!!!There's probably one dying right now.