Recommend me a book!

[RibenaBerry]

Right, reading these boards recently has given me a bit of a kick up the arse on my feminist principles. I've done a bit of 'light' reading in the area (think The Beauty Myth as a teenager) but think I need something a bit more serious without being so weighty I never pick it up. I'd rather have something published in, say, the last 15 years than any of the 'classics'.

Any ideas?

"You coming out with vicious things about me is a personal attack."

I'm not being vicious, I really do feel sorry for you and hope you get the help you need.

You still haven't explained this comment dittany:

"Earwigca stop pretending you understand what sexism is because you're just showing yourself up."

Is this omission because you can't defend or explain it?

dittany
Your posts do come across as sexist, agressive and transphobic.

Maybe we need to calm down and speak like adults and and take others views into consideration.

Yes i have posted much information about GID, but that is so that others people can have some understanding and humanity.

Parents of GID children will always fight for our children with all our hearts and minds. The same as any other mum with a child with a medical condition. One day my daughter will be the true woman she needs to be. If people don't like it then tough, she will still be a woman with or without others consent.

exactly dittany!

re the trolling

(and lots of other things) sorry, trying to cook dinner

frikonastick - if you can point out which comment on this thread is off-topic and I will agree with you about there being trolling on here. Good luck with that though

off topic? no no i dont think anyone has been of topic. i meant the whole coming on here as a group to try shut down the discussion we are having.

no no, you are all clearly on-message. fear not.

Dittany,I wasn't direct because I thought "ha,the feminine silenced voice on MN - that's a joke" and posted with that in mind,
but I am feeling a tad guilty that it came out a bit personal,in context.
(stereotypically female attitude there..)No-one who has talked to you on MN would look on you as being silenced in any way.(that isn't a dig - I don't always agree with you,but at least you are there saying what you believe.)

I think men and women do show stereotypical behaviours but if I don't want a man saying to me,"well you are doing X because you are a woman - all women do X" ,which I don't ,then I should act the same way towards men.But I think it is ok to call individuals on what they do.
Sexism is discrimination against someone on the ground of their sex/gender,so could be directed against men.

You mean to say that if I hadn't mentioned that Germaine Greer is transphobic and totally wrong on HRT, that she is a very important writer but it is essential to read her work critically that you wouldn't be displaying transphobic, sexist and bigoted comments on here dittany? I think not.

"You're right that Mumsnet is a place where women's voices do have freedom, and that actually makes it a very special place, but that was really my point, even in a space like this, men feel no compunction about coming on and being bombastic and taking up space. Do you think a woman would behave like that in a male dominated space?"

Margaret Thatcher?

"How about if a group of women went into a porn users forum to tell them to stop abusing women (and we'd have a moral right to do that) - who do you think would come off worse? My guess is that it wouldn't be the porn useres."

That's your guess though isn't it. Why not do it and stop being so scared of men.

"So it isn't sexism (and I do have to say it again, men aren't victims of sexism, women are) - it's pointing out a power dynamic."

That's a radical feminist belief and not generally accepted.

"I already said that we aren't going en masse to troll a trans forum, and tell them they need to stop claiming to be women, but it's not working the other way around."

Sorry dittany, but you don't get to decide who posts on MumsNet and who doesn't. If you want that kind of control go start up your own blog.

"And you're right I haven't been silenced, but I don't actually like posting when I'm being told I have utter bile for a soul or I need help (and I'm not noticing anybody defending me either) - "

Again, entirely your own problem, perhaps related to your perceived self-worth.

"it's like some people feel free to talk to me like that in defense of the men they are supporting."

You feel free to attack whole swathes of people but dislike it when people pull you up on it. Doesn't wash.

"So those are silencing dehumanising techniques and they are used against women who stand up to male dominance."

You were attacking trans children and their parents. I understand that you don't see how wrong and indefensible this is, but there are lots of other people who can see it.

dittany

I have no collegues on this thread. I work in education ans was told about this by a friend at work.

I think it's extremely worrying that you have a male child and that you are encouraging him to believe he can be a woman. How old is your child?
My child is now 16, so has gone through puberty. As for your worry, don't be. She no longer self harms, suicidal thoughts, running away and getting drunk. She is now a happy human being. She is on the hormone blockers to give her the space and time she needs before going any further.

Surely as a mum you can understand why when parents like myself are being accused of being child abusers that we will stick up for ourselves. Do you think that any of us would have a GID child by choice? Hell no. But you deal with the hand that is dealt to you.

Im' just trying to help others understand our childrens condition and explain that we are not abusers.

chibi - you are getting confused, you are an unicorn.

I think the volume of posts on here about the experiences of trans people kind of proves the original point. One of the reasons why there are so many clashes when trans people try and use women only services, groups and events, is that many feminist and/or lesbian groups have found out through experience that trans people start to dominate conversations, services and groups by having this focus on their own experience rather than the experiences of women as a group.

That has pretty much been demonstrated on this thread. The newcomers seem totally disinterested in discussing feminism or the experiences of women, even though they are in a feminist internet space - they are just interested in their own experiences. I really don't get that - I would not go to a trans site and start talking about my experiences, although there are no doubt some people who rudely do so.

Sally, I did want to come to back to the response you made to me yesterday. I have been thinking about your situation today before I came back and read your posts, and I was thinking that you are acting as a parent - trying to work out your child's needs and act on their behalf. I completely understand that and was happy that you had explained it in the same way in your post. And that is often the way as a parent - there can be a big chasm between what each of us wants for our child and what society wants. I hope everything works out well for your daughter.

"One of the reasons why there are so many clashes when trans people try and use women only services, groups and events, is that many feminist and/or lesbian groups have found out through experience that trans people start to dominate conversations, services and groups by having this focus on their own experience rather than the experiences of women as a group."

Perhaps you would like to qualify this statement MillyR?

"The newcomers seem totally disinterested in discussing feminism or the experiences of women, even though they are in a feminist internet space - they are just interested in their own experiences."

Feminism is for all women, including trans women. The experiences of trans women are the experiences of women.

It has been said above, perhaps you missed it, that people are commenting here to add information for people who may need it, and also I think commenters are adding experience to an academic argument. Feminism isn't just about theory - it's most potent when it's about real life.

I've changed my mind -it's not all greer's fault - it's Rberry's- she started this thread .... And the threatened thing - humm that'll be because you Are acting en masse (anyone mentioned the playground?)

Selacious, you've said you're intersexed yes? I think that's quite different to a male wishing to transition.

No one came back with any science for me.

And before today Blackduck? There was an en masse of transphobic comments.

The idea that men cannot experience sexism is not a radical feminist idea - it is just part of a general understanding of equality and diversity.

A man can be individually victimised for being a man, but he cannot experience sexism, because sexism operates at a societal level and is institutional - the group who experiences this are women.

The same is true of white people. They can be individually victimised for being white, but they cannot experience racism, because racism as an institution in Britain targets black and minority ethnic groups.

MILLYR
Sally, I did want to come to back to the response you made to me yesterday. I have been thinking about your situation today before I came back and read your posts, and I was thinking that you are acting as a parent - trying to work out your child's needs and act on their behalf. I completely understand that and was happy that you had explained it in the same way in your post. And that is often the way as a parent - there can be a big chasm between what each of us wants for our child and what society wants. I hope everything works out well for your daughter.

Thank you at least you have taken the time to try and understand. And yes i speak as a mum.

I thought this was a mums site not a feminist site?