Recommend me a book!

[RibenaBerry]

Right, reading these boards recently has given me a bit of a kick up the arse on my feminist principles. I've done a bit of 'light' reading in the area (think The Beauty Myth as a teenager) but think I need something a bit more serious without being so weighty I never pick it up. I'd rather have something published in, say, the last 15 years than any of the 'classics'.

Any ideas?

rikonastick
and we are not talking about FTM individuals because they are not trying to identify as female. they are in fact, already female. that they dont want to be is thier own business.

So what your saying is it's not all GID people you have a problem with, just MTF? It's ok for someone to want to be FTM but not MTF. Because in your small mind they will always be female. And thats ok in you little box.

dittany
I'd also like to point out that it's very culturally masculine for people to be making these long bombastic posts trying to teach women the error of our ways. The penis is still very much in evidence.

I'm more woman than you know. I just have the BALLS to stick up for myself and the rights of my child.

"the point about trans is that it puts women's very identity under attack."

No it doesn't dittany. Perhaps you feel your identity is under attack as you define yourself as being a woman because you don't have a penis, but that is your definition, and your problem alone. This is the problem when you decide that all women are a homogenous group and you speak for them all and know how we all identify. It is an impossible thing to do.

chibi - you do know the signifance of a unicorn in mythology don't you? But yay to your new identity

seriously

when i get angry/frustrated i tend to get facetious

thank you dittany as always for patiently, persistently, coherently and concisely putting a feminist perspective out there

you have no idea just how much good you do, just with your words

thank you

as a transwoman i can assert that there isn't any such thing as being trans lol

dittany
MTF Trans try very hard to be feminine, but they never really get the feminine silenced or quietened voice. They always try to dominate - online through reams of words - because that's how they've been trained. The entitlement shines through.

how many MTFs do you know personally? Face to face.

Nothing like letting reality take a sidestep to your assumed 'logic' and 'facts' dittany, eh?

dittany - there is no argument.

You wrote:

"Earwigca stop pretending you understand what sexism is because you're just showing yourself up"

and also:

"when you're continually reduced to making personal attacks it shows you've lost the argument."

Can you seriously not see what you are doing?

Anyway, I asked you to expand on the first statement and you have not done so yet.

"It is not a coincidence that at the same time the women's movement was created and women started fighting for our liberation and freedom, that men started claiming to be women and saying that women don't exist except as a fantasy in some man's head".

This just isn't true though,dittany ,throughout history and in different cultures there have been men who lived as women and women who lived as men.

Trans women may not get the feminine silenced voice,but they wouldn't be the only ones on MN with that problem,would they??

Funny that some women are threatened by MTF transexuals. You must be so insecure.

And to go playgroung tactics is so immature.

I am so glad that my child was not born to some people on here. That she is loved for who she is and will always be excepted for who she truly is. A wonderful loving, understanding, non judgmental woman.

Some people could learn a lot from her.

Please don't report dittany's personal attacks on me as they should stay to show how she operates.

Is there a real difference between one six inch post,and lots and lots of little posts,dittany?

It's all an attempt to communicate a point of view.

so explain

why are your opinions more valid than anybody else?

Why are you so threatened by my child?

Your views on GID are VERY clear. You don't like it. Well that's a shame for you. You are missing out on some wonderful people.

Hey frinkonastick, Of course you have the right. I?m not saying you don?t . Everyone has the right to doubt, to question, and to have an opinion. I have loads. Some of mine might offend you, and then you give me your point of view and then we try and come to an accord. Or mutal understanding.
I?m not upset by the statement of self mutilation. It doesn?t me anymore because my ex-girlfriend insists on calling my reconstruction that, It stings a bit coming from her, but from someone I don?t know it doesn?t bother me.
I will say at this point I?m not an agent of trans rights or anything and I?ve been called transphobic on more than one occasion, that doesn?t bother me either. Because like frink I?m allowed an opinion.
My main concern is the creation of the third.
What hurts about the self mutilating comment is that ?? and sounds so stupid I thought quite abit before I put it in?? then had a gin??
I spent my teenage years a white middle class boys boarding school hell. My dad worked double shift to pay for it, he worked on the ship yards. I?ve been privildged since forever, and I?ve been through the system that churns out Daves and Bosisisisissss. While I was in that system and roaring into puberty all I wanted to be was ??. Wait for it??. Pregnant. I was going nuts. I?m grinning like a idiot because I don?t but it either. I wouldn?t blame you if you spate your tea over your laptop.
In my case having a penis is a burden, it?s a barrier to relationships, it?s a barrier to my self perception. I accept that I might never have any form of relationship as long as I live, I also accept that the suergy I?m prepared to go through might leave me without any genital sensation at all, I accept that my libido may never return.
Coming out cost me a seven year relationship with a woman I?m still deaply in love with and we still remain close friends. It cost me my art directors job and stupid salary. I?ve gone through living in WC2 in a open lovely home, to a housing association flat in Brixton.
I gave up everything, because I couldn?t endure.
My aspiration live to a male standard as enforced by society has left me riddled with guilt. Not that I did anything wrong, I?ve not even had a parking ticket. I have a lot of pain and regret for my ex, she didn?t need this, and I feel I failed her so much I cry if I think about it long.
Because of what my penis represent to me and my guilt of aspiration being scoffed at for using the words Neo Vagina, when there is a very good reason for doing so. And then telling me that I?ll still retain me penis post operatively really does hurt. It?s perhaps on of the most scathing things someone can say, and I don?t appreciate it.

I'll take a break i reckon

Ok,dittany - maybe I was being a bit snitty.But I don't think "the female silenced voice" is a feature anywhere on MN,I think there is a big temptation when you feel strongly about something to post a lot in the hope of getting your point across,and volume is volume - however you get there.
I do think saying "they are posting great long posts because they are men,and that's what men are like" is sexist,and I don't like sexism,in either direction.

Must go now and eat pizza...