Why some women don't identify with feminism

[happysmiley]

I aaw on another tread someone saying that the more they thought about it, the more they thought they weren't a feminist. Someone else on a different thread said that the Feminism topic has a "reputation" elsewhere. I know that if I were to ask most of my female friends if they were feminists, I'd probably just get a puzzled look, maybe a reluctant "yes" but not much enthusiasm.

So why is this? Why don't women identify with feminism?

And what can we do to get women on board? Because if women aren't willing to sign up, men hardly will.

If I were asked I'd say I was a feminist and I'd explain all it means is equal rights under the home and fairness at home. I don't consciously think I've suffered sex discrimination but I may be wrong. I've also used my sex where I can for gain so if there have been negatives I think there have been positives too so if anything it's pretty balanced and all evened out in the wash in my case. I would prefer men to be forced to have children 50% of the time after divorce - that would be a feminist change I'd support.

I was asked about violence? Who is in favour of it? Human beings can be pretty nasty to each other. There are also a lot of men who are subject to domestic violence but not as many was women, certainly.

It's certainly never felt a problem for me asking for more pay. If someone can't afford me that's fine. I'm the best. They can get cheap and nasty elsewhere if they choose.

I don't see myself as a feminist, I see myself a beliver in equal right, and equal expectations, for and of everyone. Because while for some men things are great; they have the higher-paid jobs and a little woman at home looking after the house. But some mne don't want that. They would love to be a SAHD, and not be mercilessly mocked by their mates over it.

Who among us can honestly, hand on heart, say that we don't look down slightly on male nurses because it's not a man's job.

Of course the balance is skewed much more negatively towards women, but the real solution, to my mind, is to have true equal opporunities for all. Such as equal paternity leave for men, and equal pay for women.

We need to erase this expectation that women are the home-makers and the child-rearers, while men are the workers in the jobs. We need to erase the idea that care-based jobs such as nursing, or even teaching, are 'women's work'.

So I don't believe in women's rights, on their own. I believe in individual rights, for everyone, to earn as much as they are worth, to be free to hold whatever job they like without anyone thinking it's in any way inappropriate for their gender, I want to see it impossible for anyone to be tied to the home by expensive childcare because their partner 'earns too much'. So many sterotypes need to be broken down on both sides of the fence for men and women to truly be on a level playing field.

Hopeforthebest, for me being a feminist is very simply about believing that men and women should have equal rights. I'm not an activist, I'll point out examples of sexist behaviour when I see them, but that's as far as I'd go. But personally, I think that it follows that if you believe that women should have equal rights to men, you are a feminist. I saddens me that people, especially women, either don't believe that women are worthy of the same rights that men enjoy, or that they do believe it, but don't want to publically identify with the cause.

Not a cause? How do inequalities get addressed then, if not by people actually trying to do something about them?

I don't look down on male nurses either. Why would I?

It is a word that has become besmirched so I cannot see much point in using it or arguing over it. I am certainly favour of fairness. Most of us have an innate sense of fairness whether male or female. Having read on here recently that it may have to be (a) against pornography and (b) socialist or even (c) keeping men out of the house that makes me even less likely to use the term but like hs I do point out sexism where I can as some people just don 't notiec it or allow it to happen and it's only by intervening that you make others aware they may be taking a sexist stance.

Hopefor, but you don't have to be active to identify with a cause.

DH very openly talks about this affiliation to his political party. He is publically aligned to them. He's never done anything for them. He doesn't go out canvassing at election time. He doesn't have a poster up in the window. I don't think he's even a paid up member. But he's happy to put his hand up and be counted when the question is asked.

HopeFor, I have started doing small things. I'm setting aside a couple of hours every week to write letters (eg as part of Amnesty campaigns or most recently emailing my parliamentary candidates to ask them to sign Object's Women in the Media pledge. I'm talking about it with my DCs, DP and other family and friends (lucky them, I hear you cry ). I'm reading books, blogs and generally trying to learn as much as I can about the relevant issues. I'm taking part in the discussions on this topic to learn more and to be heartened by the words of other women who feel as I do. I plan to do a lot more than this, but it's a start.

Hopeforthebest - IMO feminism is a belief. A belief that men and women are equal. I can hold this belief quite happily without signing a petition or marching or taking any action unless and until I see something worth acting on. (For instance, signing up to the MN Let Girls Be Girls campaign, or emailing the Today programme to protest against their dim editor who thinks women just can't cut it as journalists.)

I think I live as a feminist - I act as a human being who is equal to anyone else, treat everyone else as my equals, and occasionally make a noise when I register something that is wrong.

Every time I refuse to be browbeaten by an aggressive assertive man at work, or give a man who tries to impose his unwanted company on me short shrift rather than giggling prettily, or undertake to study or be openly good at something that is a "male" thing, then I am doing a little bit for feminism, IMO.

Women who are bold and proud and successful and confident and don't take any shit are making a feminist stand for all women just by being.

Women who leave abusive men, or who refuse to be financially kept down when they take time out to raise the children, or who won't be treated like a doormat - they are all taking feminist action - even though they may not realise it. Becuase the more women who stand up and say "i will not be treated like this" does that little bit to erode the idea that that behaviour is acceptabele in the first place.

IMO.

What else is there to do?

I admit that when I give to charity I focus on charities for women and children. Things like the fistula hospital or helping women who have been subjected to vile impositions.

I don't see that I am thus depriving other opressed groups a disservice. Women make up 50% of the population of the world and a lot of them have an utterly shitty time - and what happens to them most directly impacts the children as well. As a group they are the argest oppressed group in the world. Take any oppressed group - and you will usually find that of that oppressed group the women and children have it the worst of all. So I give my money to them.

to answer the OP - i personally find it too scary to even enter into these discussions here or in RL as the response in my experience seems to be either:
"how can you possibly not call yourself a feminist when blah blah..."
or
"how dare you call yourself a feminst when you then say/do blah blah..."

to be honest, it's safer to just keep quiet

Too right, fluffles.

Feminism can sometimes be rather intimidating to women. Put a foot wrong and somehow I am not the right Brand Feminist.

I frankly don't care enough to wear the label to defend it. But I know what I believe.

I feel the same fluffles-you are not alone.

Oh dear fluffles.

That's not good!

When we started this topic we all mooted the idea of a "feminism basics" thread for people who weren't sure what they thought/were trying to get to grips with it all/didn't know all teh lingo and hadn't read all the books etc.

i wonder what happened to that

Where are all these feminists that people meet and get so put off by?! Seriously, I've hardly met any women who want to talk about feminism. That's why I'm so grateful for this topic!

The people are on these threads ...

Can self-declared feminists actually agree on what it is? I have yet to see any real consensus on these threads.