So banning the Burka - freeing women from opression or taking away free choice...?

[Portoeufino]

I read that in Belgium there is a draft bill to ban burkas and also the niqab.

As they put it " There is nothing in Islam or the Koran about the burka. It has become an institution of intimidation and is a sign of submission of women. A civilized society cannot accept the imprisonment of women."

They then talk of "matters of public safety" - is that implying that if you wear a burka is it therefore likely you might have it stuffed with explosives? Or if you cover your face, then there are security issues connected with that?

I have to admit I am very ignorant about all this. DO women only wear this clothing because they are opressed? Do they choose to? What happens if it is banned? Are women freed, or will they end up forbidden from leaving the house?

I am very interested to learn and understand more about this.

here

By the way, has anyone ever seen a woman actually wearing one in England or Europe for that matter, because I never ever have myself.

I've seen quite a few, admittedly almost always in Heathrow.

I see a lot of Niqabs in High Wycombe.

Same here Riven.

I live in West Yorkshire and I've never seen anyone in a bukha/burqa and, to be honest, I don't even see that many in a niqab. Which, considering the number of Muslims in this area, probably speaks volumes...

This thread has shocked me. For anyone who genuinely believes that an eleven year old girl is an adult in biological terms and so ready for sex...

The skeleton is not adult until between approximately 18 and 20 years of age. Obviously development of the human brain and acquiring of the skills required to support children is part of biological development and typically also takes 18-20 years in 'natural' environments.

Meaning that women obviously aren't being pressured into wearing them in case my vague comment was a bit woolly.

Riven - that supports your view earlier about the different perceptions in the West/East, I think.

Riven, I don't know what your post, or the phrase 'biology is biology' is meant to mean.

An eleven year old human, in biological terms, is not an adult.

If you, or other people on this thread, want to argue that sub-adults should be encouraged to reproduce because of cultural traditions, that is a wholly separate argument.

I have only seen one woman in a Burqa and that was in the playground right next to the Mosque in Brussels. My only thought was that normally I would smile or chat to another mother, but the Burqa does kind of cut off the visual queues I am used to. ie, does she look friendly and smily, or is she giving me evils from under there. It is hard to tell. I have seen both responses from other mothers in the playground....

I saw no one in a burkha in Iran this year. I see tons in London and near me. It annoys the mothers my age who came here and aren't traditional and have careers that their daughers rebel by covering up but all teenagers do and they'll soon see sense. Mind you you'd think the one thing I'd get in iran would be femininst covering up and no photos and just there for my brains but I was beamed in my awful looking clothes stuff all round on massive TVs round the rooms and hundreds of photos were taken after but huge fun. I'd do it again and I have never been touched so much by women... quite sexy really if I were into that kind of thing.

"Yes, islam has a Xenia explains a system of 'prenuptial agreements' where prior to marriage a woman can state 'conditions' on the marriage, like she wants to work/study/stay in the same town as her parents/have a cleaner or nanny etc. These conditions are then binding. "

Indeed, that's what I meant and not enough do that. But then just look at mumsnet threads of Christian women who are too thick even to know what bank accounts their husbands have. The issue is usually about female education everywhere. It's why the best charities around the world to give money to are those which educate women and we are. It will all come good.

Actually, it is very interesting to me to hear from the Muslim posters that they like wearing the niqab, and have valid reasons for doing so that have nothing to do with "men" making them do it.

In biology, an adult is an individual whose body has finished growing - about 18-20 in humans.

You could read up on the evolution of childhood by googling Barry Bogin. The definition of biological adult would be in any basic biology textbook.

dittany, this is NOT what this thread is about. You seem to imply that Muslims all marry off their children age 11 to old pervs. I sure there ARE cases where this happens but please start your own thread to discuss the statistics.

I don't really care what this thread was originally about. I believe that people who condone paedophilia should always be challenged.