So banning the Burka - freeing women from opression or taking away free choice...?

[Portoeufino]

I read that in Belgium there is a draft bill to ban burkas and also the niqab.

As they put it " There is nothing in Islam or the Koran about the burka. It has become an institution of intimidation and is a sign of submission of women. A civilized society cannot accept the imprisonment of women."

They then talk of "matters of public safety" - is that implying that if you wear a burka is it therefore likely you might have it stuffed with explosives? Or if you cover your face, then there are security issues connected with that?

I have to admit I am very ignorant about all this. DO women only wear this clothing because they are opressed? Do they choose to? What happens if it is banned? Are women freed, or will they end up forbidden from leaving the house?

I am very interested to learn and understand more about this.

Islamically ewhat a woman owns is her own personal wealth, she can choose to give it to the family pot if she wants, but can not be compelled to do so.

A man however has to 'keep' his wife and children to a reasonable standard for the money he earns (obv there will be a difference in rich and poor families).

It means that a woman cannot be forced to leave her children to work. It is a bit like the idea of child benefit being paid to the mother, to ensure that man did use money to totally control everyone around him and spend on himself leaving his wife and children needing.

Actually it applies to inheritance a woman may receive etc. not just wages.

And, this is a genuine question, how many career options are open to women in the Middle Eastern societies which have a more misogynistic interpretation of Islam? I know this comes back to culture and not religion but, actually, the entire thread does...

Depends upon the age of the children and the agreement between the parents also.

I missed from above, is that on marriage a 'dowry' or mahr is paid to the bride, this is her personal money so she starts her married life with a small pot of money that is independently hers, shje doesnt have to wait to go to work or inherit, she will always have some independent means

And all those rules are very very sexist and will die a death as we all know. Also most muslims don't live in countries with those rules thankfully as the rule of law so women and men have the legal rights of the country in which they choose to live. A high earning British muslim businesswoman on divorce would have to pay her husband whatever English law required whatever the Koran or rules supposedly made under it might say.

Women can although plenty are stupid enough not to do so, go to their mosque before marriage and get rights agreed in writing to cover a divorce and various other matters. More should do so.

"there's no country that is actually run on Quranic lines."

Why is that then, after all these centuries. Because it doesn't actually work in practice maybe?

Yes, islam has a Xenia explains a system of 'prenuptial agreements' where prior to marriage a woman can state 'conditions' on the marriage, like she wants to work/study/stay in the same town as her parents/have a cleaner or nanny etc. These conditions are then binding.

purits more likely because the countries that consider themselves to be Muslim states are run along the same old "men in charge" misogynist lines and hold all the power. This is true all over the world. Those who hold the power, whatever their religion or politics, want to change things to create a more equal society...

"I do know the Bible urges women to dress modestly too. Do they for men?"

No idea! I don't get my fashion advice from religious tracts.

Riven, I am proud to call myself a feminist but what I mean by it is that I believe that all people should be treated and valued equally under the law and within their culture.

That's it for me - nothing to do with looking down my nose at SAHM (I do work full time but I find full time childcare much harder work than my very stressy job); not to do with being like a man (frankly, why would I want to?); and not to do with making men inferior or lesser (although, if I'm really honest, I do think that women are "better" than men but I try to be even handed in my outlook).

"ah, but is fashion, and its 'bible' Vogue, the new religion?"

Not in my world. I have no desire to spend silly amounts of money on this year's must-have (which is invariably a colour or shape that doesn't actually suit me) only to discard it as passé the next year.
I'm sure that fashion creates lots of jobs and keeps the economy ticking over but it can do it without me.

"everything in the window was beige."

I thought beige was the preserve of OAPs.

Sob! I just cancelled my subscription to Vogue...

I've been buying it for over 20 years but have realised that the fashion loop back to the 80s has taken me back to when I first started buying it.

I'm 44, I don't care what 17 year olds are wearing any more. Unless it's a burkha, of course

I found a beige Burka on amazone! I thought they just sold books!