So banning the Burka - freeing women from opression or taking away free choice...?

[Portoeufino]

I read that in Belgium there is a draft bill to ban burkas and also the niqab.

As they put it " There is nothing in Islam or the Koran about the burka. It has become an institution of intimidation and is a sign of submission of women. A civilized society cannot accept the imprisonment of women."

They then talk of "matters of public safety" - is that implying that if you wear a burka is it therefore likely you might have it stuffed with explosives? Or if you cover your face, then there are security issues connected with that?

I have to admit I am very ignorant about all this. DO women only wear this clothing because they are opressed? Do they choose to? What happens if it is banned? Are women freed, or will they end up forbidden from leaving the house?

I am very interested to learn and understand more about this.

"I think burkha wearing should be saved for being at home."

That would defeat the point of wearing a burka though as it is to feel "protected" in public. No one wears it at home unless there are some male visitors that are not blood relatives.

'This offends every bone in my feminist body and I am mortified that muslim women accept this tosh.'

why does that offend you?
As a Muslim woman, my husband does not expect me to go out to work. Providing for the family isn't my responsibility, it is his.

However, if i do go out and earn money from work, then that is classed as my own money, my husband still has the responsibility of providing for the family. my husband cannot take that money.

If i spend that money on my family then Allah will record that as if i have GIVEN IT IN CHARITY. so i would be rewarded for spending my money on my family.

every time i spend my money on my family it is classed as an act of charity.

"That's an interesting differentiation between the right to work or not and the responsibility to provide."

It's weasel words. I don't need a man to be responsible for my upkeep thank you very much. How dare you try to infantalise me like that.

umayma

Are you living in the dark ages? Let the men do the important things and let women earn pin money. And we'll give them brownie points for shopping.

I work, my DH works. I don't 'keep' my money, neither does he. It all goes into one pot because we are one unit, one family. There is no divide between the sexes here.

Religion is a deeply personal relationship, and I wouldn't want to comment whether someone else's religion made sense to me personally, however seems to me that there is the religious aspect of women's clothing and cultural aspect.

jack Straw used this tactic when he asked a woman in his constituency surgery to remove her niqab; that it was a cultural issue, and not a religious one.

But if I were a Muslim woman, I would be offended that my religion was being interpreted by a white Western male.

In any case, it's a very fine line between cultural and religious anyway. Crosses, rosary beads, yalmulkes, etc, are all cultural symbols but are important for people practicing their religion, so can't really be seen in isolation.

'Let the men do the important things and let women earn pin money'

who said that men are doing the important things?

caring for and raising your family is just as important, nowhere in Islam, its said that womens work isn't important.

if i worked then we would be the same, money in one pot. however i'd still have the right to keep my money if chose to, and by choosing to put that money in the pot, that is classed as charity.

So Allah has taken the responsibility of providing for the family off womens shoulders, and that is seen as women being oppressed or being in the dark ages?

"So Allah has taken the responsibility of providing for the family off womens shoulders, and that is seen as women being oppressed or being in the dark ages?"

Yup.

Why does your god need separate rules for men and women? Are not all people equal in his sight?

purits
"It's weasel words. I don't need a man to be responsible for my upkeep thank you very much. How dare you try to infantalise me like that. "
Sorry, I didn't mean to offend. There are two kinds of feminists as far as I can see: one kind believes in men and women are more or less the same and the other believes in valuing the work that women do (child-bearing and rearing). I think both have their good and bad but Islam definitely leans towards the latter.

yes of course we are all equal

''For Muslim men and women, for believing men and women, for devout men and women, for true men and women, for men and women who are patient and constant, for men and women who humble themselves, for men and women who give in charity, for men and women who fast, for men and women who guard their chastity, and for men and women who engage much in Allah?s praise, for them has Allah prepared forgiveness and great reward.'' (Qur'an 33:35)

"And as for the believers: both men and women are in charge (or protectors) of one another, they (all) enjoin the doing of what is right and forbid the doing of what is wrong, and keep up prayers and render the purifying dues, and pay heed unto God and His apostle. It is they upon whom God will bestow His grace?." (Qur'an 9:71)

''The works of male and female are of equal value and each will receive the due reward for what they do: Never will I suffer to be lost the work of any one of you, male or female...'' (3:195)

''Whoever does right, whether male or female, (all) such will enter the garden'' (40:40)

"And thus does their Lord answer their prayer: I shall not lose sight of the work of any of you who works (in My way) be it man or women: You are members, one of another." (3:195)

Sakura: are you saying that only women can do child rearing?

umayma: if you are equal then why is it the man's responsibility to provide for the woman. Why are women allowed to opt out of work, but not men. Where is the equality in that?

NO, I don't think only men can do child-rearing but I do think the work should be invested with prestige and it's not.

only women

So do you want Allah to say,
''let the men stay at home and the women go out to work, then come home, breastfeed, sort out the housework that the men haven't done properly, wake up and breastfeed in the night, not get enough sleep and go back out to work again the next day.'' ?

giving different roles to men and women, doesn't mean women are less in the eyes of God.

I wouldn't ban them but women are a bit silly to choose to wear them. Victorian women in the UK fought for years to get rid of rhtie long skirts which caused them to fall over. God thinks our bodies are wonderful and made us how we are. If we cover up we are ashamed of his creation. He or she is sitting up there laughing when not crying at the mess man (mostly man, not woman) is making of it - all these paternalistic misogynist mistakes men are making in order to keep women down. But it's not really an issue - all cultures are moving forward and in 50 years we'll laugh at all these women wanting to look to silly and they will have all moved on culturally. You can be a very good Muslim without adopting impractical clothing and if they think m en will rap unless women are curtailed why not just curtail the men - tie them to the kitchen sink whilst women work. Nothing will stop women's progress.

The Koran before stupid men misinterpreted it all was very advanced for its day. It was seeking to ensure equality. The UK is packed with leading surgeons, lawyers and others who are female and muslim. They certainly aren't housewives although a few less clever badly educated ones from the countryside in Pakistan just haven't had their eyes opened yet to what God wants for them - that they work and play a full part in society beyond serving men.

"So being a SAHM should be as valued as being a company CEO. In Islam it is."

So in Islamic countries everyone gets paid the same amount of wages, irrespective of what they do because everyone is equally valued?