Obstetric violence is the last socially acceptable form of violence against women

[NibliaBiblia]

Just what the title says.
I was physically forced onto my back in labour. Friend of mine had her waters broken without even being told they were about to do it and then was refused a ceasearean for hours after she said she needed one. One born every minute they just tell women what's going to happen and then do it. Another woman I know was verbally coerced into giving birth on her back in stirrups. Every time someone at work is pregnant somebody asks if they're "allowed" to do xyz.
And then things like cesareans without anaesthesia, cervical exams when the woman is saying to stop, episiotomy without warning, being belittled or spoken down to I haven't heard from women I know personally but definitely do happen.
And when a woman talks about feeling traumatised or violated there's always multiple people popping up to say that's normal, she should count her blessings, she should be grateful, etc.

I resent your suggestion that Healthcare providers are commiting intentional violence and the implicit suggestion this is at all comparable to other forms of violence against women.

How rude.

I don't need to do a deep dive on this dude.

I know the vast majority of Healthcare workers care intensely about the health of mother and baby, and to put them into the category of perpetrators of violence against women is deeply disrespectful.

You're welcome to share your opinion too but it's generally more interesting to do it without accusing people of being bots.

Although natural, giving birth is dangerous, women and babies die. When in labour things may not go as planned and the situation can change very quickly. I really don't think anyone is deliberately assaulting women in labour just trying to do the best, safest thing for mother and child.

Sadly women are not well educated.
If women routinely saw other women die, bleed to death or live with children who suffered severe brain anoxia then we could have a conversation.

This again.

Have you had counselling to help you process your birth experience? Posting the same thing over and over on Mumsnet isn't going to help.

Caesarian without anesthesia??? What Facebook madness have you been reading? The woman would die of clinical shock! This is very much not a medical practice in the UK.

This graph is quite telling. Yes, interventions suck. They are often painful and they regularly make childbirth a less beautiful and zen experience than we'd want. But personally I wouldn't want to go back to the days when childbirth was a 50/50 toss up whether women would live or die so all those nasty interventions are obviously doing something right.

I think if you haven't had it happen to you then you can think obstetric violence is an exaggeration. I had a cervical sweep done on me without my consent. It was agony and didn't work but more than the physical effect, the psychological effect was really devastating. I was also forced to stay on my back and was shouted at during labour and was constantly told that I wasn't coping with the pain. (I had no pain relief at all as according to the midwife it was too early - I gave birth a few minutes after her telling me I was basically being precious and had hours to go). I also broke my coccyx during labour and she told me that was not possible and wouldn't let me get an x-ray. I discharged myself from the labour ward asap and went to A and E to get an x-ray where they confirmed the fracture. Honestly, the "care" was shocking and I felt very fragile and couldn't wait to leave and go home as I did not feel safe. I tried to complain and asked for my medical records which turned out to be a web of fiction - even my personal details were wrong. The only thing that was a positive was that the midwife got a bollocking in the corridor from the head doctor for her mishandling of the induction process but I was never offered an apology.

Medical intervention is sometimes necessary and life saving, but it always requires the mother's informed consent. Performing interventions without her knowledge or permission is medical battery. Especially if it's not an emergency situation there is no excuse for just doing things without even bothering to inform the woman.
I keep posting about this because before it happened to me I could not have conceived if a situation in which I would be physically assaulted, at length, and then blamed for it.
I should have said "without adequate anesthesia". It's fairly common for women to feel pain during a ceasearean. Most of the time the surgical team will stop and fix it before continuing, but sometimes they will not listen to the woman and continue the surgery. Listen to "the Retrievals" season 2 from the new York times for investigative retiring on this topic.

This is violence against women, and it's hiding in plain sight behind the term "birth trauma". Around one in three women experience birth trauma and most of those women cite the way they were treated by the medical practitioners as a contributing factor.
We don't call domestic abuse "relationship trauma". We don't call sexual assault "intimacy trauma". It's important to name obstetric violence specifically.

I was treated horrifically by the maternity department. All but one of my complaints were upheld. They didn’t follow their own guidelines. Failed to obtain consent. Lied. Luckily I made very detailed notes on my phone as to times, dates and names. I was told that is what allowed them to address it.

They got retrained apparently 😂. Despite one of them being the senior person who gave the training that she failed to follow (I managed to get the training document for my complaint).

So they got away with a training session. I had ptsd and struggled to sleep for a couple of years. Yes it’s abuse.

The knowledge base to make an informed decision can’t always be conveyed properly in under 5 minutes.

Informed consent looks different depending on the urgency. Even in an emergency there is time to say "this is an emergency, you're life is at risk, we need to do x to keep you/baby safe".
But what happened to my friend was that she overheard the midwife say to another "I think you're going to have to break the water", then there was a vaginal exam that took a while and then she felt her waters go. That was not an urgent situation. On top of that she hated the vaginal exams, she had many of them, far more than the standard one every four hours, and she had no idea she could decline.
When I was assaulted it was not an emergency.

People do not have c-sections without anaesthesia, ffs. What a load of deeply upsetting, negative rubbish you’ve posted. Sometimes things happen quickly bc the baby is in distress. Nobody is committing obstetric violence, for God’s sake.

ETA: I know occasionally women have been treated badly in labour, but this is not the norm.

Medical misogyny is horrifyingly still going on. It's not that healthcare providers are purposefully continuing it - it's inbuilt. Women's pain isn't accepted as something that needs fixing - just managed. It's worse for women of colour who are truly at the bottom of the pile for any help. And it gets worse as we age. My own grandmother was left with cancer effectively eating her from the inside out because the pains she had were dismissed as 'just what happens when you get older'. The rage I feel towards those responsible for that will never stop burning frankly.

It's rare for the surgery to continue in the absence of adequate anesthesia but it does happen. Listen to the NYT reporting in this in The Retrievals season 2.
Somewhere between 5-15% of women feel significant pain during their ceasearean surgeries. The American Society of Anaesthesiologists puts it at 11-23%. Most of those women are listened to, but not all of them.

I couldn't agree more OP. Something terrible happened to me in this regard and I actually reported the incident to the police, but they weren't even interested in hearing my complaint and said I should go through PALS.

I was told, when Covid was happening, that unless a midwife stuck her fingers unecessarily inside me, therfore also increasing infection risk, my husband would not be permitted to witness the birth of his first and last baby.
I was fortunate in that I'd opted for a private homebirth.

Can I PM you? I have also gone to the police but I don't think many other women do. They initially refused but later recorded a crime.

I believe you op. I did not give birth in the uk but had a suppository shoved up my bum without warning, my birth position chosen for me even though it made me panic and had to scream at the dr not to do ventouse. And I think that birth went fairly well considering

Yes please do xx

I couldn't understand why my first vaginal exam during induction was so excruciatingly painful - I refused any further exams until they offered me gas and air. Only later did I realise that she must have done a sweep without my consent. Ironically it was a male nurse who later took the time to put me at ease and do a completely pain-free exam.

How much of that is shoulder tip pain versus actual incision site pain?

I would never, ever trust midwives or consultants when you are giving birth. In my experience, they do not give a damn about you or your feelings. Their only concern is getting your baby out alive. You are just the vessel.