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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Taskmaster: if you don’t use ‘correct’ pronouns you’re a philistine…

533 replies

Sugarleaf · 24/10/2026 22:47

…Who’s stuck in the past. To be ‘cool and curious’ you need to use non- biological sex based pronouns. And this is about a ‘certain generation.’ I mean I’m 32 and think it’s bollocks.

plus, as a bonus, ‘if you don’t like me, fine, as long as you use my correct pronouns.’

ffs

Taskmaster: if you don’t use ‘correct’ pronouns you’re a philistine…
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CornishDaughteroftheDawn · 25/10/2026 21:07

TransParentlyAnnoyed · 25/10/2026 16:16

I'm sorry your life is so dull, that you think 'just be tolerant, and learn about difference' is funny 😁

I've learned no transphobia at all, true.

Being hostile to difference, attempting to justify it by inventing bizarre conspiracy theories - then reading similarly ignorant people's conspiracy theories - isn't scholarship. It's literally just bigots trying to prove themselves right.

Being hostile to difference

This is the thing though. She is not different. She’s a woman, like all other women. She may be clever and funny (I’m taking pps word for this as I have no idea who she is) but she is still a woman and gets the same pronouns as the rest of us.

Her stance sets all other women up as conforming to some humdrum ‘stereotype’ of womanning that she is way above because she is so special and different. She conveniently forgets that we all have our own interests and personalities that often don’t remotely conform to the stereotypes. It is quite an arrogant and insulting position to hold.

FlirtsWithRhinos · 25/10/2026 21:10

sweetnsourr · 25/10/2026 21:05

Noone is being compelled to "mouth the words". They just can't deliberately misgender in the work place. If they don't want to 'mouth the words" the ycan use the person's name. Much ado about nothing…

Now this is of course a problem, because when a trans woman names herself a "woman", she is thereby misgendering me.

But again, you know this. We've ridden this roundabout many times before. We both know you will twist and turn and never ever ever give a coherent answer as to why a transwoman's understanding of himself as a woman because of his mind should have more authority than my understanding of myself as a woman because of my body.

I don't have much urge to repeat the same points, but I'll find some links of the previous runarounds for you.

sweetnsourr · 25/10/2026 21:10

OldCrone · 25/10/2026 21:00

You keep saying this, but I think it would be helpful if you explained what you think the relationship is between sex and gender (if any).

Genderists use sex-based pronouns to denote gender, so sex and gender can't be completely unrelated to each other in genderists' minds.

For example, what is the gender of a man who wants to be a woman? His sex is still male, but what is his gender?

A natal male that associates with the gender of natal female is a trans gender woman. Woman/man denotes sex & gendered associations.

FlirtsWithRhinos · 25/10/2026 21:11

CornishDaughteroftheDawn · 25/10/2026 21:07

Being hostile to difference

This is the thing though. She is not different. She’s a woman, like all other women. She may be clever and funny (I’m taking pps word for this as I have no idea who she is) but she is still a woman and gets the same pronouns as the rest of us.

Her stance sets all other women up as conforming to some humdrum ‘stereotype’ of womanning that she is way above because she is so special and different. She conveniently forgets that we all have our own interests and personalities that often don’t remotely conform to the stereotypes. It is quite an arrogant and insulting position to hold.

A bit more than "quite", in my opinion!

FlirtsWithRhinos · 25/10/2026 21:13

sweetnsourr · 25/10/2026 21:10

A natal male that associates with the gender of natal female is a trans gender woman. Woman/man denotes sex & gendered associations.

So, sex and gender are very different but also have to use the same names. Bit daft, no? Bit almost-certain-to-lead-to-confusion-distress-and-a-bunch-of-expensive-and-embrassing-court-cases?

spannasaurus · 25/10/2026 21:14

sweetnsourr · 25/10/2026 21:10

A natal male that associates with the gender of natal female is a trans gender woman. Woman/man denotes sex & gendered associations.

If woman and man are gendered words what word would you use for female adult humans that excludes male adult humans

BackToLurk · 25/10/2026 21:14

CornishDaughteroftheDawn · 25/10/2026 21:07

Being hostile to difference

This is the thing though. She is not different. She’s a woman, like all other women. She may be clever and funny (I’m taking pps word for this as I have no idea who she is) but she is still a woman and gets the same pronouns as the rest of us.

Her stance sets all other women up as conforming to some humdrum ‘stereotype’ of womanning that she is way above because she is so special and different. She conveniently forgets that we all have our own interests and personalities that often don’t remotely conform to the stereotypes. It is quite an arrogant and insulting position to hold.

People like her remind me of the really militant atheists (and I say this as an atheist) who bang on and on about even the smallest aspect of religion and say things like “oo if I go in the church it’ll burn down”. There’s a real ‘lady doth protest too much’ element to it. As though, if they get too close to the thing they reject - gender, religion - they’ll get sucked into it. Always suggests a bit of a flimsy sense of self or lack of confidence in who they are to me.

sweetnsourr · 25/10/2026 21:15

FlirtsWithRhinos · 25/10/2026 21:10

Now this is of course a problem, because when a trans woman names herself a "woman", she is thereby misgendering me.

But again, you know this. We've ridden this roundabout many times before. We both know you will twist and turn and never ever ever give a coherent answer as to why a transwoman's understanding of himself as a woman because of his mind should have more authority than my understanding of myself as a woman because of my body.

I don't have much urge to repeat the same points, but I'll find some links of the previous runarounds for you.

This is where you are bizarrely confused. Its like saying because I call my self a Christian everyone else must be one. Self identification is speaking for one's own interpretation of the world as it applies to them & noone else.

If this demented interpretation was anywhere connected to reality don't you think it would be illegal as well?

sweetnsourr · 25/10/2026 21:17

spannasaurus · 25/10/2026 21:14

If woman and man are gendered words what word would you use for female adult humans that excludes male adult humans

As I said woman & man possess both sex & gendered connotations so that's where prefixes like trans & cis/natal solves the distinction.

OldCrone · 25/10/2026 21:18

sweetnsourr · 25/10/2026 21:02

"Trans gender" is a ubiquitous term in modern liberal societies. People might not know the ins & outs of gender but they would know its somebody who doesn't conform to the typical behaviour of their sex & wants to live that way. That they might disagree on how trans people come into being is a moot point because either way they exist.

That you believe people can't tell the difference between the concepts of a natal woman/man & a trans woman/man is severely underestimating human intelligence but perhaps you are speaking for yourself.

That we should agree there should be better terminology shows an ignorance of the most basic mechanism of why gendered terms exist in the first place which is an association to common sexed behaviour. And while common sexed behaviour distinctions exist so to will their associations to them.

Good luck with changing that btw.

somebody who doesn't conform to the typical behaviour of their sex & wants to live that way.

Could you give some examples of this 'typical behaviour' for each sex?

spannasaurus · 25/10/2026 21:19

sweetnsourr · 25/10/2026 21:17

As I said woman & man possess both sex & gendered connotations so that's where prefixes like trans & cis/natal solves the distinction.

Edited

So you don't have a word that can be used exclusively for female human adults. Why is that when we have specific words for the different sexes of most animals

sweetnsourr · 25/10/2026 21:20

OldCrone · 25/10/2026 21:18

somebody who doesn't conform to the typical behaviour of their sex & wants to live that way.

Could you give some examples of this 'typical behaviour' for each sex?

Now you're venturing into territory outside of the subject matter of this thread which is pronouns usage so perhaps start another thread so its not derailed?

sweetnsourr · 25/10/2026 21:21

spannasaurus · 25/10/2026 21:19

So you don't have a word that can be used exclusively for female human adults. Why is that when we have specific words for the different sexes of most animals

Edited

I said cis/natal woman.

CornishDaughteroftheDawn · 25/10/2026 21:21

BackToLurk · 25/10/2026 21:14

People like her remind me of the really militant atheists (and I say this as an atheist) who bang on and on about even the smallest aspect of religion and say things like “oo if I go in the church it’ll burn down”. There’s a real ‘lady doth protest too much’ element to it. As though, if they get too close to the thing they reject - gender, religion - they’ll get sucked into it. Always suggests a bit of a flimsy sense of self or lack of confidence in who they are to me.

Absolutely. It feels like she’s trying to prove something to herself and insulting the rest of us in the process.

Hopefully she will get over whatever difficulties have brought her to this point and be more accepting of herself in the future.

spannasaurus · 25/10/2026 21:22

sweetnsourr · 25/10/2026 21:20

Now you're venturing into territory outside of the subject matter of this thread which is pronouns usage so perhaps start another thread so its not derailed?

Its relevant to pronouns use

If I see a male what characteristic might help me to decide whether to refer to them as he or she

Theeyeballsinthesky · 25/10/2026 21:23

sweetnsourr · 25/10/2026 21:20

Now you're venturing into territory outside of the subject matter of this thread which is pronouns usage so perhaps start another thread so its not derailed?

god you ppl are embarrassingly inept at arguing your case

I mean if I were a trans person, the ppl who come here and attempt what they think are coherent arguments are the last ppl I'd want in my corner

spannasaurus · 25/10/2026 21:23

sweetnsourr · 25/10/2026 21:21

I said cis/natal woman.

That's not one word

FlirtsWithRhinos · 25/10/2026 21:24

sweetnsourr · 25/10/2026 21:15

This is where you are bizarrely confused. Its like saying because I call my self a Christian everyone else must be one. Self identification is speaking for one's own interpretation of the world as it applies to them & noone else.

If this demented interpretation was anywhere connected to reality don't you think it would be illegal as well?

I am not "confused". I am simply prepared to think to through the actual implications of your beliefs in a way you are not.

I get that you will not allow yourelf clarity here and I do understand why. But nevertheless, whether you admit it to yourself our not, this is the place the things you believe end up.

Oh, and your "Christian" simile doesn't work, because most people don't call themselves "Christian".

What it is actually like is saying that you are a Christian because you eat fish on fridays and that's the only thing that being a Christian requires. Pissing off both the millions of people who also consider themselves Christian and think there's a little bit more to it than that, and the millions of other people who eat fish on Fridays and think the Bible is a bunch of fairy stories.

sweetnsourr · 25/10/2026 21:25

spannasaurus · 25/10/2026 21:22

Its relevant to pronouns use

If I see a male what characteristic might help me to decide whether to refer to them as he or she

Its none of your business unless they tell you that's the purpose of pronouns. Gender is a spectrum so its not always obvious anyway.

spannasaurus · 25/10/2026 21:28

sweetnsourr · 25/10/2026 21:25

Its none of your business unless they tell you that's the purpose of pronouns. Gender is a spectrum so its not always obvious anyway.

So to be safe and not assume anything about a person's gender i should stick with non discrimatory sex based pronouns for everyone

CornishDaughteroftheDawn · 25/10/2026 21:29

sweetnsourr · 25/10/2026 21:20

Now you're venturing into territory outside of the subject matter of this thread which is pronouns usage so perhaps start another thread so its not derailed?

On the contrary, it is precisely within the subject matter of this thread. The comedienne is rejecting what she perceives the stereotype of female or woman.

You purport to know a lot about all this, and offered the definition of *somebody who doesn't conform to the typical behaviour of their sex & wants to live that way.

The least you can do is explain what you mean by these sex stereotypes.

BackToLurk · 25/10/2026 21:30

sweetnsourr · 25/10/2026 21:25

Its none of your business unless they tell you that's the purpose of pronouns. Gender is a spectrum so its not always obvious anyway.

So I see someone male at work. I say to another person “Who’s that? I’ve never seen him before” and they say “are you some kind of philistine, they are a ‘she’ (or indeed ‘they’)”. How would I have known their ‘correct’ pronouns?

sweetnsourr · 25/10/2026 21:31

CornishDaughteroftheDawn · 25/10/2026 21:29

On the contrary, it is precisely within the subject matter of this thread. The comedienne is rejecting what she perceives the stereotype of female or woman.

You purport to know a lot about all this, and offered the definition of *somebody who doesn't conform to the typical behaviour of their sex & wants to live that way.

The least you can do is explain what you mean by these sex stereotypes.

Look it up yourself if its not self evident which it is to every rational being. I'm not your personal dictionary.

I don't do trolling.

FlirtsWithRhinos · 25/10/2026 21:31

spannasaurus · 25/10/2026 21:19

So you don't have a word that can be used exclusively for female human adults. Why is that when we have specific words for the different sexes of most animals

Edited

Not just the sex of aninals - apparently different hair colours, or people who live on different sides of the Mersey, are also different enough to need their own names.

But the different sexes of humanity? Meh, just bundle that up with some unverifable, unobservable, self-claimed, never-defined, not-even-the-same-for-each-person quality of "gender" and it'll be fine.

After all, it's not like what physical sex you are has any actual practical impacts in your life, is it?🙄

sweetnsourr · 25/10/2026 21:33

BackToLurk · 25/10/2026 21:30

So I see someone male at work. I say to another person “Who’s that? I’ve never seen him before” and they say “are you some kind of philistine, they are a ‘she’ (or indeed ‘they’)”. How would I have known their ‘correct’ pronouns?

Maybe ask them if they have preferred pronouns?

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