Dr Upton in the news again

[Sparkyduchess]

I see the lovely Dr Upton is in the news again, who didn’t see this coming 🙄

i feel for the woman facing this, and troubling that she was worried she’d be bullied into accepting treatment from him

https://www.dailymail.com/news/article-16235793/Doctor-quit-UK-Peggie-trans-row-centre-gender-storm-Australia-known-Lis.html

@Wishesandhorses

It's always interesting how hard some posters will work to make this into another and more comfortable issue.

The hospital is tiny
Female doctors can't be guaranteed
It's unreasonable to want a female doctor.
Chaperones

I only added some information that wasn’t in the DM article. At no point did I say it was unreasonable to want a female doctor - just that in the ED, it may not be possible. And yes, chaperones are an option. Are facts a problem for you?

Agreed.

But we are not talking about what he said.

We are talking about what the Daily Mail is allowed to report regarding a person's hospital visit in Australia, and where they might spin a narrative to sell a story.

I have worked in multiple EDs of multiple sizes in multiple parts of Australia. We CAN and DO accommodate requests for female Drs. It is very rare even in small departments that there is no female Dr on shift. The only time this might happen is a single dr on call at a 20 bed rural hospital. The dr involved in this case is required to be supervised (due to visa/being less than one yr in Aus) and would not be the single dr in a hospital.
We accommodate requests for female dr for various reasons including religion, trauma, mental health issues etc.
Additionally, I've noticed in recent years the tendancy is that in emergency departments vaginal examinations tend to be deferred to female doctors even if the patient hasn't asked.

I am sorry for your experience and if has been horrific. However, some of my closest friends in Australia moved there as adults and it is pretty clear that I and their other friends do indeed care about them. Some of my family are also immigrants from the UK living there also and it is fair to say that they are also cared for.

As an immigrant to the UK, I too have had very shitty experiences from British people. It is perhaps an experience of being an immigrant. However, I certainly don’t judge all Brits based on this.

You have made it clear that don’t believe the conclusion that the DM has drawn, and you obviously don’t believe that Rachel Wong will have checked her source before making a statement. Fair enough. Point taken.

Yet with this post, you have just made your own presumptions that are not even credible but are projections from your own personal experience.

I’m not sure how this works in an ED environment, though. In wards and outpatients, yes, but the wait to see a doctor - any doctor - in ED can be many, many hours dependent on the condition. Making particular conditions about the type of doctor you will see can only extend that time. I understand some women do have specific reasons, but that is where chaperones come in.

Before anyone says “you’re dismissing women’s experiences in hospitals”, no. I’ve had terrible experiences in NSW hospitals specifically due to being the only woman on a ward of men (more than once - that was John Hunter) and sleeping in a dayroom due to fear of the man in the bed opposite me. Both of these were relatively recent. NSW Health does have work to do in that particular space.

Thank you. That is good to know.

Do you happen to know what the current policy is if a female patient asks for a female health care professional and there is a male health care professional there who has claimed to be female on shift, does the policy state he should be able to present himself as a female option ?

I know one state in particular must have that policy from my friend’s experience, which was not ED but was for an intimate examination none the less.

But presumably a patient has the right to refuse treatment and must give informed consent to treatment?

Chaperone’s really are not the magic answer here.

Chaperones are only to remove the potential of physical abuse and verbal abuse. Chaperones do not help where a female person will be concerned for other reasons, including the reaction to any male person physically touching or even just seeing them in a state of undress.

Just one example among many, even things like having an internal ultrasound is made painful when it is being done by a male vs a female practitioner. And that is just the physical impact.

If anything chaperones also are likely there to prevent complaints of abuse. I particularly remember a doctor I went to for a skin check in Australia was only two years after charged and conviction for sexual assaulting his female patients. My GP here has a policy that he has to have a female chaperone when he does a skin check and I don’t believe it is for only for patient’s comfort.

Sorry for the typos

I have worked in multiple EDs of multiple sizes in multiple parts of Australia. We CAN and DO accommodate requests for female Drs

I’m not sure how this works in an ED environment, though.

😵‍💫

I am sorry to hear about your mixed sex room experiences. I completely understand. It was one of my biggest regrets that I couldn’t assist my own mother who had dementia and was put in a mixed sex room in an Australian hospital. As she was a domestic violence survivor, that was a traumatising experience for her and we felt powerless to help her. The additional stress was clearly evident.

The mixed sex hospital room really needs to stop.

It's not just Port Macquarie Base Hospital that 'often struggles with long wait times'. I would say that most hospitals do. Some more than 'often; - more like always struggle with long wait times.

Even whopping great big tertiary hospitals like Westmead, RNS, PoW and John Hunter!

And in London ED’s too.

Absolutely agree.

Yes? I’m not sure how in works in reality when there are few doctors rostered and patients that have been waiting for (in some cases) 10 hours or more to be be seen.

Someone who has done it, worked in those places and low workforce environments has told you it is completely workable. Just accept it wasn’t a factor in this case and move on.

Of course. But we’re talking about the ED here. Refusing treatment is delaying treatment - that’s just the way it is.

Port Macquarie is 3 1/2 hours away from the John Hunter Hospital. That is the choice a patient would likely make if they didn’t want to go to Port Macquarie. Many more complex cases are sent there in any case - I used to receive a regular treatment monthly at John Hunter, and people would drive from Port Macquarie every month for similar. If you’re bitten by a shark in the Port, you’re not treated at the local hospital, but at John Hunter.

I’m allowed to ask for further information. They said they worked there, but not in what capacity, note.

As an immigrant to NZ I can confirm the locals don’t give a flying fuck about you and see anyone as an interloper. He will have no support and he will be completely alone there.

This.

My daughter left for Australia about the same time as Theo/Beth/Lis. NHS workforce planning is so poor that half her year group were left without jobs after finishing their Foundation training. She already knew 14 others from the UK working in the same hospital before she arrived.

She has been lucky, being employed in a rotational position in her preferred speciality in a large hospital group in a major city. It is the first time they had employed non-Australians, and her lovely mentor is helping her navigate a career path despite the restrictions that flow from her lack of Resident status. She also has the advantage of having worked in a particularly stretched bit of the NHS where you don't survive unless you are able to work closely with the nursing team and other HCPs, leading to her being invited along for social events with a mixed group of Aussie and British nurses. Apparently a rare honour for a newly-arrived Brit doctor.

That said it is not that easy. The working culture different to the UK, somehow more individual and more ambitious. Her social life mainly involves young Brits and Irish enjoying what they see as a working holiday, with people constantly arriving and leaving. The climate is different, and though she is enjoying the outdoor life, she is missing the cultural depth of the UK. Working conditions are better, but different, with less autonomy, (her experience was of an NHS stretched to breaking point, so too much autonomy), and generous time off after a run of shifts.

Theo/Beth/Lis' experience is more typical in terms of jobs young British doctors are normally recruited to. A&E with its tough shift patterns, and somewhere remote. Australia is huge, and even places that look nearby on the map involve hours of driving.

The DM article suggests Theo/Beth/Lis's wife has gone with him. I assume that they will not keen to get involved in the burgeoning local LGBQT+++ scene that the DM describes. Do they have a job? Port Macquarie has a population of about 50,000. Smaller than Bridgend, Weymouth or Kircaldy. The climate is described a humid sub-tropical, described as being one of the best rated climates in Australia, but still challenging if you are from Fife. Many hospital colleagues will be civil and professional but keep their distance. In part because they will have seen too many Brits on short term contracts to want to reach out, but also because of the history. Whilst the brutal shift patterns will not be conducive to taking part in sports or other regular community activities.

I do not envy his wife.

I understand your point but I don't share your faith in the assessment process.

It's enough of a problem for me that a female doctor was requested and a male doctor was sent. A male doctor who previously stated in court under oath that he would do exactly that. Those are facts, if the rest is Mail hyperbole it doesn't really change anything.

There is no spin in the way you're claiming. You said in an earlier post that the DM said this was happening because he was forcing his care on her. They didn't.

Papers are reporting Upton is a keen hockey player and referees at matches for the Port Macquarie Hastings Hockey Association (and gets paid accordingly).

Indeed, and it’s often been said that women would rather use male toilets, at least there’s no men in there trying to transgress women’s boundaries over toilets at least.
It’s the worst type of men that do this.

That as may be, but A&E departments need 24/7 cover and rotas will be all over the place: nights, longs, weekends. Taking on paid refereeing shifts when you are free, makes sense. But near impossible to commit to regular team training and matches.

Anyway its not Theo/Beth/Lis I am thinking about. Life can't be a bunch of roses for his wife. Theo/Beth/Lis may be out there in a skort refereeing the girls and enjoying a "brave and stunning" reputation in the local LGBQT+++ community, but his wife is also having to build a new life for herself a long way from home.