Kevin Lister: teacher refused to use wrong sex pronouns, sacked: tribunal appeal

[MyAmpleSheep]

Is anyone following this case? The EAT hearing was yesterday and today.

tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/k-lister-vs-new-college-swindon-dbs

The DBS is there to protect organisations, not children ....

NCS was where I did my A-Levels (back in the dark ages). It used to be a really good sixth form college, very balanced and adult environment and quite a simple philosophy of, if you didn't want to do the work, bye-bye and off you go. Of course, that was when people were free to leave education in the year they were 16, so no one was forced to be there. Also, no one in those days cared about pronouns etc. Life was much simpler.

Well done Mr Lister for standing your ground against this utter nonsense. I hope you win!

Indeed. I feel bloody sorry for him, having come of age in an era where teachers told kids what to do, not the other way round.

Hope he wins. There was a male prison officer not far from me who was sacked for misgendering a TIM prisoner. He was Eastern European, who are known for saying what they think.

This is true, however the guidance suggests that an appropriate alternative approach would be to use the child's name.

In this case the teacher was unwilling to use the child's name and continued to use her previous name and made unnecessary reference to her sex in front of the class, such as stating she should enter a female competition. He also told her she was being a burden to the NHS and her parents. You can read about it here.

In my opinion his behaviour was unnecessarily stigmatising to the trans-identified student and crossed the line into being an unreasonable manifestation of his otherwise legitimately held GC views.

In addition he also believed that homosexuality was a choice and that same sex relationships were less valid than straight ones. Again, I believe he is entitled to those views and should not be discriminated against for them. But I think if he treated a gay student in a way that was stigmatising that would be a different matter.

I want my GC views to be protected and I think I should be entitled to state my opinion that sex is immutable and significant. However, I don't believe that that means that trans-identified people should be targeted with personally directed comments that are inflammatory. I think it's especially significant when there is a power dynamic such as the trans-identified person being a student in school. It's a fine line to walk but I feel the teacher crossed the line into inappropriate behaviour in this case.

@Whatchamacallitt the fact the article acknowledged the college uses the term “dead name” absolutely makes me discount as any way at all unbiased from trans “right think”. I also don’t think that the power dynamic is the biased in the teachers favour especially when the pupil is of the holy caste.

It does happen. Back in a different era, I used to know somebody who had changed his name to NoNukes. Definitely took a bit of effort to use. And can you imagine if another club member had been inspired to opt for YesNukes?

Who remembers the "trend" of giving Starbucks the name "Starbucks Dodges-Tax" when ordering a crappyfrappylattycino ?

It's not a big step, is it, from "employee who refuses to participate in social transitioning of a minor deserves to be deprived of livelihood" to "...and is attempting an illegal conversion practice, punishable by imprisonment"?

I'm aware he may have behaved badly in other ways. But it's really important that judgments in this area draw a very clear line between unobjectionable manifestation, on the one hand, and being a dick, on the other. Are the judiciary up to it?

And if the state is not allowed to impose beliefs on its citizens, how does that square with permitting public sector employers to impose the practice of gender identity belief on employees?

Such employers should advertise in the same way as religious schools: "It's an occupational requirement of this post, that applicants are believers in gender identity theory and practise it at all times.".

Presumably he'll be unable to find work, which seems most unfair.

Hasn't there been a shortage of Maths teachers, however, since Maths graduates can generally get highly-paid jobs in industry? Related to the point about religious schools, maybe that's where he could teach in future, a religious school that is firm on resisting trans ideology.

He sounds like a dickhead enjoying the opportunity to bully a teenager.

We were called by our surnames at school, which would avoid all this malarkey

Oh diddums poor teenager she called a girl, my heart bleeds for her, however will she manage to get over such a terrible thing.

The maths teacher was asked to refer to a biologically female student by their preferred male name and he/him pronouns during A-level lessons but refused to do so.
A Bristol tribunal concluded in 2024 that he was dismissed for expressing his beliefs in an "objectionable" manner, which staff say amounted to "bullying and harassment".

Ah, the classic trans cry-bully tactic!

The teacher is actually the one being bullied — sacked for refusing to indulge a misguided teenager’s fantasy (which was very likely to lead her to harmful surgery and drugs).

He was supposed to show respect to this teenager who wanted him to comply with her totally unreasonable demands. She of course didn’t have to show any respect to him.

If the state is not allowed to impose beliefs on its citizens, how does that square with permitting public sector employers to impose the practice of gender identity belief on employees?

A very good question.

Teachers should show respect to all their pupils; they are the adults and have powers, responsibilities that the pupils don't.

If a pupil doesn't show respect to a teacher, the school will have disciplinary procedures that can and should be followed.

If he didn't tell her she'd be missing out on a potentially fantastic opportunity. Don't we still need more girls in STEM subjects?
If that's harassment, we are properly fucked.

Can't believe grown adults would throw a tantrum over being asked to use a teenager's preferred name.
You aren't being asked to believe in anything, just be polite at work.

Posts like these just prove how toxic the Mumsnet GC purity test is. What he did to this child is nothing less than bullying - that's why he was sacked.

A doctor telling you your diagnosis in a consulting room is very different to the same doctor telling you the same diagnosis in the waiting room so that everyone else there can hear. HTH.

It's crazy, I don't even believe in all the trans stuff but the amount of joy some women are getting over a middle aged bloke bullying a 17 year old girl is depressing.

The problem is, you’re quoting a BBC news report that is reporting what is alleged in court by the defence counsel. The facts of the matter may well be very different.

Making reference to a prize for girls to a pupil is not the same as telling someone a medical diagnosis; get a grip.

It's about respecting the dignity and privacy of the pupil, which wasn't despite him making a safeguarding report, so he knew the situation was sensitive.

Mate, everyone in that class knew the pupil was a girl.