The kind of “girl” that a boy who identifies as a girl thinks he is

[MyAmpleSheep]

How do people who celebrate the transitioning of five year old children know that the kind of girl a boy who identities as a “girl” identifies as is the same kind of girl that a girl who identifies as a “girl” is?

Other than than from what he sees girls doing, how can a boy “know” what being a girl is, to be sure he is one?

is it posited that there is an innate sense of boy:girl that exists outside of the experience of seeing and being the presence of others?

If a child was “raised by wolves”, could they be trans? If that child had a male body and reached the age of 20 never having seen or met or known of the existence of women is it possible for them to grow up with dysphoria? When eventually discovering the other sex would they suddenly recognize “they had been born in the wrong body”?

Nobody said he had brain damage. He may or may not have suffered a drop in IQ because he didn't go through puberty.

But as others have explained, it's very difficult or even impossible for someone who's suffered abuse from their parents as a child to view that objectively, particularly if, as in this case, the abuse has had lifelong irreversible effects on their body and hence on their life in general.

Nor can we know how the child might have been had they had parents who were unconcerned about their 'gendered' behaviour. A father who played with his son and included dolls in that play, allowed his son to explore whatever toys and clothes he wanted, and was not concerned by the thought his son may be gay.

Childhood is so deeply informative and impactful, and a child who experiences ACTS is likely to be affected by them for the rest of their life.

A paper about one of the earlier experiments on children with these drugs noted that many of them showed a drop in IQ. I'll see if I can find it (unless someone else has the link to hand and posts it first

At a period of follow up after endogenous puberty restarted? I'd certainly be very interested in seeing that paper if so.

No. Most or all of the children in these experiments never went through puberty. Although the parents and children are sometimes told that it's to "buy time" so that they can decide if they want to continue in their trans identification, all the evidence indicates that they are locked into a pathway leading to opposite sex hormones, so they never go through puberty.

The brain development which normally happens during puberty therefore never happens.

You sound like you rejected feminine things in your life and respect male things. My mother was like that. She would definitely deny it, but it was drip fed through out my childhood. Little comments throughout my childhood suggested that she thought women were fat, had to endure periods, had to go through the pain of childbirth, were not respected etc. When I was about 9, my friend told me in graphic detail about a rape of a girl that she had read about. It horrified me. As a result of all sorts of influences as well as these, I wanted to be a boy and I was especially miserable during puberty. By my early 20s, I felt very differently and very much wanted to be a woman.

I'm not saying this is how your child feels but no child grows up in a vacuum.

Why would a study on children who restarted endogenous puberty be relevant to Jackie Green?

Please stop spreading misinformation.

For other treatment uses, puberty blockers for children are used for as short a period of time as possible and are used when there is no other alternative.

And for precocious puberty, the female child’s puberty resumes as the body intended. Female puberty continues.

There is observational evidence from doctors treating children with these drugs for gender identity purposes that have supported the animal test.

It is also hypocritical that you dismiss and laugh at neuroscientists expert opinion on one aspect where there is some evidence to support the claim, while being very confident that neuroscience will find a connection with all people who have transgender identities in the future and have claimed that this future finding should determine how children are treated in the present.

Ah so they started on FMH then? In such cases, the evidence as it is, suggests there are no long term harmful effects . So please do share any papers that demonstrate otherwise

For other treatment uses, puberty blockers for children are used for as short a period of time as possible and are used when there is no other alternative

yes. Exactly as they should be for children with gender dysphoria.

What is FMH?

Why? How do they help the child?

So it's unethical to provide medical interventions to children with gender incongruence, because we don't have enough evidence. And it's unethical to gather the evidence.

Feminising and masculinising hormones.

What evidence? Please do share the papers that show this.

By temporarily stopping the effects of puberty, which may be causing acute distress to a child with gender dysphoria, to give them more time to consider their options before either starting treatments with potentially more permanent effects, or stopping the medication and allowing endogenous puberty to continue as normal.

Opposite sex hormones following puberty blockers during adolescence means that the child never goes through puberty.

Gender incongruence is a mental health condition which should be treated in the same way as other mental health conditions. Not by sterilising children and stunting their normal development.

Yes. The whole thing is unethical.

But we know it locks them into a pathway.

Puberty is the cure for gender dysphoria in children in the great majority of cases.

These are arguments from 10 years ago. We now know this isn't true.

As far as I can tell

there are clearly worries about bone health with long term usage - no clinic offers such treatment without having yearly bone density tests.

Extreme long term use hasn’t really happened because they are really only meant for precocious puberty- so 5 years or so - and their widespread use in the transgender community is relatively be w

the fascinating part is how suicide ideation is highest amongst people who know puberty blockers are possible but can’t access them

its not being transgender that leads to increased suicidal thoughts - various studies have shown that once conditions such as autism are accounted for transgender people don’t have high rates of suicide ideation - it now seems this must be tempered with “provided they get their preferred treatment “

if puberty blockers didn’t exist and were not widely known about this would not happen

the industry has created a suicide ideation problem

Yes I'm familiar with your "- words mean the very narrow thing I insist they mean" games.

I'm not going to get side tracked into a linguistic debate about what can be properly called "puberty". The question is- what are the effects if a child takes PBs for a short time then progresses to FMH.

No, of course it is not conscious or reasoned. It emerges out of an emotional response and a felt lack of comfort with what is being picked up around social expectations that are based on dress codes, behaviour codes, or activity preferences - that tend to be 'assigned' or associated with the sexes.

I'm not making an argument, I'm describing what PBs are used for.
I understand you don't agree with these medical interventions, as you believe that gender incongruence can be resolved through psychological therapy.

How does a toddler have a'neuro-cognitive' awareness of their sex? Can you describe this process? What does it look like? Can you illustrate with an example.

And how might this manifest in any other way than via a response to what others are conveying to them about what is expected of them - in more or less subtle ways - and a rejection of that/ a feeling of those expectations not fitting or feeling comfortable?

There are several other threads that explore this in more detail