The kind of “girl” that a boy who identifies as a girl thinks he is

[MyAmpleSheep]

How do people who celebrate the transitioning of five year old children know that the kind of girl a boy who identities as a “girl” identifies as is the same kind of girl that a girl who identifies as a “girl” is?

Other than than from what he sees girls doing, how can a boy “know” what being a girl is, to be sure he is one?

is it posited that there is an innate sense of boy:girl that exists outside of the experience of seeing and being the presence of others?

If a child was “raised by wolves”, could they be trans? If that child had a male body and reached the age of 20 never having seen or met or known of the existence of women is it possible for them to grow up with dysphoria? When eventually discovering the other sex would they suddenly recognize “they had been born in the wrong body”?

And it’s not like you can just reattach a pair of testicles, so you have to somehow find some way of accepting your lot in life.

Yes, the alternative, that is accepting that your parents hated the idea of you being gay so much that they convinced you you were actually a girl and had you castrated, would be a bit of a mind fuck.

They can only speak as a person who was treated as the opposite sex from an infant, who was denied puberty, who was given cross sex hormones very young and who was operated on at 16 in a foreign country in a way which would have been illegal in this country.

And who loves their parents.

It is a done deal. They have been converted as far as possible into the body and hormone activity of a woman. There is no going back no matter what their wishes might be. For the sake of their own sanity they must embrace what they are.

They cannot speak as the adult they would have been if they had been allowed to grow up.

Also worth bearing in mind what likely effects extemded puberty blocker usage appears to have on the developing brain.

Please educate yourself, by listening to the people who live with this condition everyday

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DccK9dIt9nf?xtok=cGR6ZWF2aGs5aWl6

I dear lord 😂

The ignorance is entirely on your part, not ours.

I have done a lot of reading on the actual facts about CAIS Aand PAIS.

Being male is defined by having a Y chromosome, and even if your androgens are completely ineffective and your body develops looking like a female, you will have longer arms and legs, therefore be taller, and not have the typical female immune system which is stronger than a man's but also takes more energy to maintain and develops autoimmune disease much more easily.

The first is due to the Y chromosome in a man influencing the greater size, and the second by the double X chromosome in a woman doubling the effect of genes for immunity.

People with CAIS are male.

You think it's funny to interfere with the development of the brain?

Indeed.

As discussed by neurological medicos and neuroscientists that have observed the impact.

While remember, we are told that being transgender is a neurological issue when there is no evidence of it being so, but we should act as if it is proven science when it isn’t.

The remarkable things we learn on MN, eh!

Yes that's what I think well done:

Lacksie has probably never given any consideration to the fact that puberty blockers arrest brain development and there’s no evidence cognitive function returns if treatment is discontinued. Here is an excellent review for Lacksie to “educate themselves” with:

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/apa.17150

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/38334046/

'Sixteen studies were identified. In mammals, the neuropsychological impacts of puberty blockers are complex and often sex specific (n = 11 studies). There is no evidence that cognitive effects are fully reversible following discontinuation of treatment. No human studies have systematically explored the impact of these treatments on neuropsychological function with an adequate baseline and follow-up. There is some evidence of a detrimental impact of pubertal suppression on IQ in children. '

Oh, cross post.

Anyway, as has been pointed out. Arresting the puberty of children based on their preference for certain toys or clothing is abusive. It's horrific. It's insane.

I'm not going to engage with these comments further as they are so, so harmful and continuing to engage , seems to just provoke more of them.

I will just again, leave links which I hope you will watch, which are really educational and from the mouth of an incredibly smart, brave and inspiring person living with CAIS, who takes the time time explain, in detail, what CAIS is, how it affects a person, and what it is like to live with it.

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DccK9dIt9nf?xtok=cGR6ZWF2aGs5aWl6

I'm not "extrapolating from these anecdotes" I've "read online". I'm talking about a 1 hour BBC documentary about Susie Green and her child, where both of them spoke, and a talk given by Susie Green, amongst other things.

Perhaps you didn't watch the documentary when it was shown. I did. That and the Louis Theroux 'trans kids' episode were my first introduction to the idea of transsexual children.

That person happily lives as a female. Good on them. It's great that they've found a comfortable way of living. Nobody with an ounce of sense thinks they shouldn't be living as a woman.

So I'm not sure what your argument is here. The only one I can see is that you are prepared to use rare people with a gene malfunction to persuade yourself that fully functioning males can turn themselves into women.

Lived experience is not the arbiter of what sex you are.

CAIS people are genetically male with some faulty genes.

Well frankly that's typical.

"I don't like the truth or the science so I'm not going to engage any more".

And didn't you say that about 6 pages back, too? I've already watched that link a few weeks back. It changes nothing. Lived experience is not how sex is defined by rational people.

Lacksie 'lols' at children's developing brains being damaged by the use of puberty blockers. I expect that is why Lacksie is departing.

Thank god for the pathways trial eh? Then maybe people will stop quoting animal studies the majority of which were conducted on one particular flock (of around 20?) sheep 😂.

Of course puberty blockers are used to treat other medical conditions and all the evidence suggest that any temporary effects are reversible after either stopping and allowing endogenous puberty to proceed or introducing FMH, but people don't like to mention that of course.

The pathways trial is the most unethical piece of medicine I've come across in my entire lifetime.

I was laughing because it was just so predictable.

We can't ask the person we are talking about what they think of their own childhood, life, identity.... because their brain was damaged by puberty blockers ofc!

Even though this person is a perfectly ordinary, articulate adult, living an ordinary life with no evidence of brain damage.

A paper about one of the earlier experiments on children with these drugs noted that many of them showed a drop in IQ. I'll see if I can find it (unless someone else has the link to hand and posts it first).

Giving puberty blocking drugs to children with precocious puberty is not without negative and sometimes irreversible side effects, as the Lupron court case in the US shows. But there are several differences here. The children take them for a very short period of time and natural puberty takes place when they're stopped. They are also prescribed for an actual diagnosed physical health condition, not for a mental health condition which can't be diagnosed and possibly doesn't even exist.

I agree it is predictable that messing with puberty has impacts on the developing brain.

The other issue is that by 'treating' someone with GA care, comorbidities get overlooked and pushed aside.

No, we can never know how someone would have been had they not been subject to years of exogenous hormones and had their piberty interrupted.

If they wanted to be a mermaid we wouldn't surgically attach a tail.
If they wanted to be a fireman we wouldn't send them into a burning building.