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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

The kind of “girl” that a boy who identifies as a girl thinks he is

1000 replies

MyAmpleSheep · 18/10/2026 14:49

How do people who celebrate the transitioning of five year old children know that the kind of girl a boy who identities as a “girl” identifies as is the same kind of girl that a girl who identifies as a “girl” is?

Other than than from what he sees girls doing, how can a boy “know” what being a girl is, to be sure he is one?

is it posited that there is an innate sense of boy:girl that exists outside of the experience of seeing and being the presence of others?

If a child was “raised by wolves”, could they be trans? If that child had a male body and reached the age of 20 never having seen or met or known of the existence of women is it possible for them to grow up with dysphoria? When eventually discovering the other sex would they suddenly recognize “they had been born in the wrong body”?

OP posts:
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BlueLegume · 21/10/2026 13:01

Can we all agree that the world has lost its collective mind and no number of papers or research can argue that there are simply two sexes. Male and Female.

DSDs - they are still male or female
Feelings - we all have feelings. Some days I feel pretty/unpretty but I do not force others to validate my feelings.

And finally - children need to be safeguarded.

Helleofabore · 21/10/2026 13:02

Datun · 21/10/2026 10:16

And there's the wedge. Just because a child really, really believes it, you have to affirm it.

No. They're not the opposite sex. No one is, including you.

Indeed.

That all amounted to ‘if a person believes that they are something that that cannot possibly be, their experience must be fully affirmed, even though there is no way that they can possibly be what they believe they are.’

which is fine in theory. But the reality is that others in society are then being told they have to act as if the impossible is somehow possible. All because it is a case of self identification. Again, this is what falls under philosophical belief.

It then becomes a problem with law, and policy, and it is a real issue in regards to language as had been discussed over and over.

HenriettaSwanLeavitt2 · 21/10/2026 13:05

Datun · 21/10/2026 12:54

You are too heavily invested in your need for sex identity to be innate. It has removed your objectivity.

As are almost all transactivists. It has to be innate, because legitimacy is sought on that basis.

The problem is, people who are actually trans belie it. You only have to look at the trans widows threads on this very board.

Almost to a man, the trans identified men retrofit their childhood to marry up with their current status. Whilst none of the people around them recognise it.

And it still begs the question, so what. So what if there is a condition that leads people to believe they should've been born the opposite sex. They haven't been.

Even Cass doesn't seem to believe in the idea of a 'tru-trans' child anymore (if she ever did). The fictional child she invented for the MPs had been "socially transitioned at two and a half by his parents" - her very words

Lacksie · 21/10/2026 13:05

HenriettaSwanLeavitt2 · 21/10/2026 13:00

And that, in itself, IS A MASSIVE SWERVE. If you can answer the question then you would. Your ego would not allow you to let it go unanswered.

I appreciate you think I have a big ego. A lot of pps on this thread have made similar comments.

The truth is I'm here because I care about this subject; it's something I know a lot about. I'm deeply concerned about the misunderstandings and misinformation spread on social media - particularly mumsnet - and I'm interested in having a productive exchange with anyone who wishes to do the same.

Zbcdeg · 21/10/2026 13:09

ArabellaScott · 21/10/2026 13:00

Omg I’m somewhat in shock that you have a study to back up my theory that relates to my belief system! ( The abstract mentions Bruce Greyson , his work on near death experiences is absolutely fascinating)

HenriettaSwanLeavitt2 · 21/10/2026 13:10

Lacksie · 21/10/2026 13:05

I appreciate you think I have a big ego. A lot of pps on this thread have made similar comments.

The truth is I'm here because I care about this subject; it's something I know a lot about. I'm deeply concerned about the misunderstandings and misinformation spread on social media - particularly mumsnet - and I'm interested in having a productive exchange with anyone who wishes to do the same.

Edited

So fight the 'misinformation' and answer the question. If you care that much you will surely want to educate us.

Helleofabore · 21/10/2026 13:14

Remember, if someone has consistently told us that language can mean whatever a group wants it to mean, it also means words like coherence, discussion and many other words may have the opposite meaning to the established and intended meaning.

That what happens when you destabilise language. You can say whatever you want to say and it can mean whatever you want it to mean. It doesn’t mean that the message being recieved is the message being communicated in any way.

Lacksie · 21/10/2026 13:15

HenriettaSwanLeavitt2 · 21/10/2026 13:10

So fight the 'misinformation' and answer the question. If you care that much you will surely want to educate us.

I already tried- multiple times. You dont care and aren't interested . You are simply goading me- as iS old crone. There may be others who are reading the thread and who wish to engage productively .

Tzika · 21/10/2026 13:19

OldCrone · 18/10/2026 16:38

So have you or have you not accepted the first step- that it is entirely plausible that a persons neurocognitive awareness/ experience of their sex, could be incongruent with their anatomy?

I'm not sure what this means. Can you explain in more detail?

Since one's awareness of one's sex is based on one's anatomy, I don't really understand what you think is happening here.

Can you please explain how David Reimer knew he was a boy.

HenriettaSwanLeavitt2 · 21/10/2026 13:20

Lacksie · 21/10/2026 13:15

I already tried- multiple times. You dont care and aren't interested . You are simply goading me- as iS old crone. There may be others who are reading the thread and who wish to engage productively .

No, you have NOT answered that specific question. Saying you have already answered is a common TRA tactic, and you insult our intelligence by thinking it will suffice. We can see that you are desperate to avoid it. We can see you waiting until someone asks a different question and then clinging to that question instead. It is the questions that DON'T get answered that always tell me what I need to know.

thirdfiddle · 21/10/2026 13:22

It simply is not possible to bring up a child outside the influence of stereotypes. You'd be reading them no stories, not letting them play with other children, never taking them to a shop or a library or the theatre or the park or even turning on cbeebies.
The best we can hope to do is provide them with armour against stereotyped expectations.

And sometimes the more unstereotyped home is, the more catastrophic the clash when they start looking outwards. Which they will at 3 unless kept in a dungeon.

BlueLegume · 21/10/2026 13:26

BlueLegume · 21/10/2026 13:01

Can we all agree that the world has lost its collective mind and no number of papers or research can argue that there are simply two sexes. Male and Female.

DSDs - they are still male or female
Feelings - we all have feelings. Some days I feel pretty/unpretty but I do not force others to validate my feelings.

And finally - children need to be safeguarded.

Edited

To clarify I meant no amount of research/papers etc has ever proved there are anything other than 2 sexes. Male and Female.

@Lacksie if you are so passionate about this subject why not set up a foundation and campaign? Mumsnet is not going to be convinced by all this. We are women and some men, who for the most part around this subject of gender etc are thoroughly fed up at having our female rights eroded because some men and women feel they are more important as humans than us normal folks.

I am utterly disgusted at some behaviours of men who purport to be women and their behaviours.

I am aghast that we think in 2026 experimenting on children is considered progressive.

No amount of papers from the internet will convince me otherwise.

Veilsofmorning · 21/10/2026 13:28

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MrPrettyDamnCosmic · 21/10/2026 13:31

Lacksie · 21/10/2026 13:05

I appreciate you think I have a big ego. A lot of pps on this thread have made similar comments.

The truth is I'm here because I care about this subject; it's something I know a lot about. I'm deeply concerned about the misunderstandings and misinformation spread on social media - particularly mumsnet - and I'm interested in having a productive exchange with anyone who wishes to do the same.

Edited

The truth is I'm here because I care about this subject; it's something I know a lot about.

Yet you will not tell us on what authority you are holding forth on gender incongruence. You have no trans relative or one with gender incongruence. Are you a professional? Psychologist? Academic? Gifted Amateur?

DOI I'm a retired A&E consultant.

Lacksie · 21/10/2026 13:34

HenriettaSwanLeavitt2 · 21/10/2026 12:51

I have since read the one @Zbcdeg linked to, after I had me tea. You haven't accurately summarised it.

Edited

By the way you- sorry AI - is correct that Ruble's theory does not rule out social influence in gender ID development. That can't be ruled out . The point is the model suggests gender ID drives learning and exploring stereotypes and that this model fits the empirical evidence on gender ID in gender incongruent children as well.

HenriettaSwanLeavitt2 · 21/10/2026 13:37

Lacksie · 21/10/2026 13:34

By the way you- sorry AI - is correct that Ruble's theory does not rule out social influence in gender ID development. That can't be ruled out . The point is the model suggests gender ID drives learning and exploring stereotypes and that this model fits the empirical evidence on gender ID in gender incongruent children as well.

Another SWERVE away from the question of interest.

StealthTroublemaker · 21/10/2026 13:39

ArabellaScott · 21/10/2026 12:56

Some parents who claim trans children also claim their child was the opposite sex in a past life.

Wasn’t there that psychologist who reckoned if a male baby popped open its onesie it showed a desire to be a girl? Maybe that’s the research @Lacksie is thinking of….

Zbcdeg · 21/10/2026 13:39

ArabellaScott · 21/10/2026 13:00

I was looking for the full text and found this piece by one of the authors https://med.virginia.edu/clinical/psychiatry-neurobehavioral-sciences/perceptual-studies/resources/advice-to-parents-of-children-who-are-spontaneously-recalling-past-life-memories. It is surprisingly relevant to parents of gender confused children as it suggests that it is important for the parent to be open,to listen and be empathetic but also to focus on showing the reality of the present life and the body that that child is born into.

Advice to Parents of Children who are Spontaneously Recalling Past Life Memories

https://med.virginia.edu/clinical/psychiatry-neurobehavioral-sciences/perceptual-studies/resources/advice-to-parents-of-children-who-are-spontaneously-recalling-past-life-memories

Lacksie · 21/10/2026 13:46

HenriettaSwanLeavitt2 · 21/10/2026 13:20

No, you have NOT answered that specific question. Saying you have already answered is a common TRA tactic, and you insult our intelligence by thinking it will suffice. We can see that you are desperate to avoid it. We can see you waiting until someone asks a different question and then clinging to that question instead. It is the questions that DON'T get answered that always tell me what I need to know.

I am not a TRA and I have no tactics. I'm simply here to have a productive conversation about a subject that matters.

You , however, are an anti - TRA and your "tactic" is to ask the same questions over and over , as if they have never been addressed, and when I'm eventually worn out , declare I have no answer and proclaim victory . All interspersed with ad hominem attacks and personal aspersions on my character of course. I'm expected to receive this all gracefully , continue to answer to your every demand, if I even mildly retaliate you will be hitting that report button and trying to get me banned faster than I can say boo.

Trans people who pop up on this platform from time to time get it a lot worse.

HenriettaSwanLeavitt2 · 21/10/2026 13:48

Lacksie · 21/10/2026 13:46

I am not a TRA and I have no tactics. I'm simply here to have a productive conversation about a subject that matters.

You , however, are an anti - TRA and your "tactic" is to ask the same questions over and over , as if they have never been addressed, and when I'm eventually worn out , declare I have no answer and proclaim victory . All interspersed with ad hominem attacks and personal aspersions on my character of course. I'm expected to receive this all gracefully , continue to answer to your every demand, if I even mildly retaliate you will be hitting that report button and trying to get me banned faster than I can say boo.

Trans people who pop up on this platform from time to time get it a lot worse.

Edited

So, ignore me and answer the question for everyone else, including the lurkers.

HenriettaSwanLeavitt2 · 21/10/2026 13:50

@Lacksie Hey, you don't even need to write anything. Just link to where you already answered the question. It is one of the OPs questions after all. Thread etiquette suggests that an OP should be answered as a priority.

BackToLurk · 21/10/2026 13:52

Lacksie · 21/10/2026 12:56

I haven't swerved the question at all, I've addressed it in detail several times on this thread, and the one that preceded it. I offered to try to explain this again, on the condition that people were genuinely interested in engaging with it and having a productive exchange instead of just dismissing it with comments like - who are you, and you're making things up.

The responses to that post were a goading "so are you going to answer me?" and dismissive "do what you like if you think you have something interesting to say" (I think the latter was you), or along those lines. That told me everything I need to know about your sincerity in having a meaningful, productive exchange.

So what is the point of me taking my time to explain it again? There is none.

Edited

I'm dipping in and out, but I don't think I've seen a straightforward answer to this question tbh.

When a boy says "I am a girl" how much of the diagnostic pathway is concerned with identifying what that boy believes a girl to be?

There is a difference between asking a boy how long he has wanted to be a girl, how he knows he wants to be a girl or observing how he demonstrates wanting to be a girl, and asking "what do you think a girl is?" and specifically "what do you think a girl is (or likes, or can do or whatever) that you are not (or can't)?"

HenriettaSwanLeavitt2 · 21/10/2026 14:01

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MyAmpleSheep · 21/10/2026 14:03

HenriettaSwanLeavitt2 · 21/10/2026 13:20

No, you have NOT answered that specific question. Saying you have already answered is a common TRA tactic, and you insult our intelligence by thinking it will suffice. We can see that you are desperate to avoid it. We can see you waiting until someone asks a different question and then clinging to that question instead. It is the questions that DON'T get answered that always tell me what I need to know.

I don’t consider that question has been answered, anywhere. If someone claims they have answered it, could they direct me to the exact post where they did so? I might have missed it.

Also the question as to what is the form of the assessment that is to be done, and how it informs the treatment - affirmation, watchful waiting, or something else.

I think L said that assessment was very important but didn’t follow up with any ideas about the detail of it.

OP posts:
Imdunfer · 21/10/2026 14:47

@Lacksie I'm sorry, because I enjoy the mental tussle with you, but it isn't, imo, worth any time debating with someone whose position is that a child stating they are the opposite sex has the same need for affirmation as a child stating that they are gay.

If you had written that right at the beginning I would have checked out.

It shows a stunning lack of understanding of what it means to be gay and a stunning level of delusion about what it means to be trans.

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