The kind of “girl” that a boy who identifies as a girl thinks he is

[MyAmpleSheep]

How do people who celebrate the transitioning of five year old children know that the kind of girl a boy who identities as a “girl” identifies as is the same kind of girl that a girl who identifies as a “girl” is?

Other than than from what he sees girls doing, how can a boy “know” what being a girl is, to be sure he is one?

is it posited that there is an innate sense of boy:girl that exists outside of the experience of seeing and being the presence of others?

If a child was “raised by wolves”, could they be trans? If that child had a male body and reached the age of 20 never having seen or met or known of the existence of women is it possible for them to grow up with dysphoria? When eventually discovering the other sex would they suddenly recognize “they had been born in the wrong body”?

One DD wanted to be a rabbit at age 4, got a basket and said it was her hutch. There was no innate sense of being a boy or a girl at that age.

Apart from the coding other children (read, their parents) were expressing with the 4 year old girls wearing pink sparkly outfits and boys wearing green and brown trousers and tops with dinosaurs and truck patterns. Marketing has been a car crash for creating rigid sex codes to the detriment of our children.

I see what you mean, but I wouldn't call that stereotyping. The point is that it’s recognition of being male. It wouldn’t matter what the name was or whether the person liked the name—it’s simply the fact that being called that name affirmed their internal representation of themselves as male.

You are completely stuck on this idea that in order to feel 'male' one must know objectively how that feels or how other people feel it. That's a very common misunderstanding, but that's not how cognitive experience works at all. There is no 'objective' way to feel male, and recognising oneself as 'male' doesn't involve imagining anything about what someone else's experience of being male is.

My four year old knows she's a girl - not because she knows how other girls experience being a girl, but simply because she knows she is one.

I recognise my arm is attached to my body. I have no idea how other people recognise their arms (I've never wondered or imagine it) - I just know my arm and I feel it attached to my body.

I recognise the face in the mirror as my own. That recognition doesn’t depend on knowing what anyone else’s experience of recognising their face feels like. I feel pain without knowing precisely how anyone else experiences pain. I recognise hunger without needing access to anyone else’s experience of it, etc etc etc. We don’t need to experience someone else’s internal state in order to recognise our own.

Ah I see Laxy is also over on this thread. Legal expert over on the SP thread and an expert on human behaviour over here.

My four year old knows she's a girl - not because she know's how other girl's experience being a girl, but simply because she knows she is one.

Given that the average age of the first experience of gender dysphoria (according to the available literature) is 6 (a range between 5-7). That's quite a bold claim.

My daughter doesn't have gender dysphoria. She was born female.

You've misunderstood. Gender dysphoria may show at 4 but that is very early. It typically doesn't manifest until later. Your daughter still has time to become your son.

The poor understanding that they are demonstrating on the SP thread has diminished my respect for their opinions on this thread. I am noticing that evidence they don't like is 'outdated and discredited'. 'Evidence' they prefer is given without citation or qualification.

Oh I see! Sure. I think that's unlikely given how firm and confident she is in her sense of self as female, but of course I don't have a crystal ball!

My four year old knows she's a girl - not because she know's how other girl's experience being a girl, but simply because she knows she is one.

How does your daughter know she's a girl @Lacksie ?

No, this "evidence" is outdated and discredited.

When did that happen? Can you post a link?

my kids are home, I will send you some citations later.

Rinse and repeat. Every time on any thread laxy iis on when evidence is asked for there is a school run to do/meal to make etc etc.

I just asked her for you. It went like this:

Me: "DD how do you know you are a girl?"

DD: Because I am a girl

Me: But how do you know?

DD: I just know, because I am a girl.

Me: But how?

DD: Because I can see I'm a girl.

Me: What can you see?

DD: Smiles in bemusement and runs off to play.

To return to the OP. @Lacksie seems to believe that gender incongruence is due to incorrect neurocognitive/psychological body-mapping. It seems to be applicable to the youngest of children (way before the significant effect that puberty has on brain development) and is independent of any social factors. The boy 'knows that he is a girl' because his brain is telling him that. The sense of boy:girl does indeed exist outside of the experience and presence of others. A boy raised by wolves would still be trans if he looked at his genitals and know that they did not fit what his brain expected, which was presumably a vulva not a penis.
All we need now is some peer-reviewed, statistically significant, uncounfounded evidence that this applies to every single person who claims a trans-identity. We'll also need an explanation of detransition (brain body-mapping reverses?) and part-time trans people (brain body-mapping oscillates?).
How about it @Lacksie ?

I referenced the Finnish study and asked you to comment on that , I would love to hear your opinions?

sure

In addition , a small scale study from Finland of de-transitioners https://statsforgender.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/06/finnish-detrans.pdf.
“Patients retrospectively believed their gender dysphoria stemmed from unresolved psychological stressors and developmental challenges rather than a stable transgender identity. “

Yes I wouldn’t have asked otherwise.

It wouldn’t matter what the name was or whether the person liked the name—it’s simply the fact that being called that name affirmed their internal representation of themselves as male.

You seem to be describing something similar to Glass delusion, which was a very real and very distressing psychological condition that died out a couple of centuries ago.

My four year old knows she's a girl - not because she knows how other girls experience being a girl, but simply because she knows she is one.

Whereas I know that I am female in the same way that I know my age or my nationality or my height or my blood type. I don't have an internal state of being any of these things.

Just putting this out there.

Is it possible that people have used language around her that has given her the impression that she is a girl?

I’d say that’s a very strong possibility….

I keep wondering how to interpret a very young child's use of language.

If a 4-year-old who was born male kept saying he was in fact a girl, I think my first though would be 'What does he think 'girl' means? and I'd be looking to get clarity from him on that.

The word 'girl' might mean a lot of things to a very young child, up to and including 'anything-that-is-not-me'.

I'd want to establish if he evens knows what the dictionary definition of 'girl' is [I mean the primary definitions, not the further-down-the-page current usage In the ever-popular Cambridge Online] before coming to the conclusion that he was trans, had gender incongruence, and/or gender dysphoria.

Additionally, although children develop an understand that there are boys and girls - by around 3 I believe - they can also believe that being a boy or being a girl can change because it depends on factors like dress.

There are lots of examples given by posters of little children claiming to be animals, but a 4 year old saying 'I am a rabbit' may not have a firm grasp of what 'a rabbit' actually means
[and hopefully, not a firm grasp of 'a rabbit' either😄]

It doesn't seem fair to a little boy to act on his questionable understanding of what 'being a girl' actually means - especially when in fact he is not a girl, and never will be one, and suggesting that he can become a girl is not being honest with him.

By " used language around her that has given her the impression that she is a girl" I presume you mean she has been told she is a girl?

Surely, intuitively, that must be at least part of it. But that doesn't explain why some children, despite being told from birth they are one sex, develop an awareness/ recognition of self as being the opposite.

For the same reason that some people believe that they are made of glass?

Or, as described by Susie Green of Mermaids, because they have been told that there is a a wrong way to be male.