Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

A Man in a dress- how would you feel?

439 replies

Wooopdiedoo · 16/10/2026 12:30

I'm fairly new here and have only read through a couple of posts, but I wanted to ask a question.

How would you feel if a man you knew wanted to wear "Female" (heavy on the quotation marks) clothing?

I'm specifically talking about a male whose only intention is to wear the dress because they like the dress, nothing else — no statement, no 'changing' of pronouns or wanting to be treated or referred to in any particular way, no mockery, no discussion or intention of 'becoming' a woman (again, quote unquote, not saying it's possible).

Would you genuinely be okay with this, say if your husband/friend/ colleague wearing a dress out in public? Would you have any thoughts or feelings about it, and would these affect what you say to them or how you would act?

I'm not sure how I would respond, honestly, and I know that's probably (definitely) due to my internalisation of 'gendered' norms (by that I man sex based). I think I my knee jerk reaction might be to feel inclined that its somehow not right or looks silly, before reminding myself that its just a piece of fabric and if someone likes what they like on their body, thats kindof the end of it.

On the other hand, I definitely wouldn't have the same reaction to seeing women in any clothing, and my response would always be neutral to positive.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
11
KhakiCritic · 21/10/2026 13:42

Coatsoff42 · 21/10/2026 13:26

@KhakiCritic if you saw a man in a dress would you consider that they might be a transwoman? Or would you assume they are a man?

I wouldn’t actually assume either way. A person wearing a dress might be a man or a trans woman. Clothing alone doesn’t establish someone’s gender identity as gender expression is not necessarily aligned.

That’s actually central to my entire argument. A dress doesn’t make a man a woman, any more than trousers make a woman a man.
Why should we need to determine someone’s gender identity before accepting that they can wear whatever clothes they enjoy?

Coatsoff42 · 21/10/2026 13:48

KhakiCritic · 21/10/2026 13:42

I wouldn’t actually assume either way. A person wearing a dress might be a man or a trans woman. Clothing alone doesn’t establish someone’s gender identity as gender expression is not necessarily aligned.

That’s actually central to my entire argument. A dress doesn’t make a man a woman, any more than trousers make a woman a man.
Why should we need to determine someone’s gender identity before accepting that they can wear whatever clothes they enjoy?

You wouldn’t be careful about pronouns?

KhakiCritic · 21/10/2026 13:52

Coatsoff42 · 21/10/2026 13:48

You wouldn’t be careful about pronouns?

Of course I’d be considerate about pronouns. Not assuming someone’s gender identity from their clothing is precisely why. If someone tells me they’re a woman, I’ll respect that. If someone tells me they’re a man, I’ll respect that too, regardless of whether they’re wearing a dress. Being careful about pronouns and recognising that clothing doesn’t determine gender identity are entirely compatible.

A dress doesn’t tell you which pronouns someone uses, any more than trousers do. And perhaps the more interesting question is why a man wearing a dress prompts such careful consideration of identity when a woman wearing trousers generally doesn't.

Coatsoff42 · 21/10/2026 13:56

It’s not a very interesting question because everybody knows why.
It would be interesting to see you navigate a man in a dress and decide if you were going to politely fish around for their gender, or just plough on calling them a he/him.

AskingQuestionsAllTheTime · 21/10/2026 14:04

KhakiCritic
My fundamental point remains the same: we should apply the same standards to men and women, and judge people by their conduct rather than make assumptions about them based on their clothes. Because we make no such assumptions about women, do we?.

Oh, yes, we do! All the time! Haven't you read the papers any time during the past fifty years and noticed that as well as her age being given in brackets, a woman is likely to have her clothing described by them, with the implication that it is relevant to her character? Haven't you read the media tearing women in the public eye to pieces because of what they wore on this or that occasion, and that it is relevant to their behaviour? Seriously: the only time I remember a man being similarly taken down for his clothing in this country was Michael Foot for wearing a donkey jacket to the Cenotaph (it was in fact an ordinary, rather expensive, raincoat, admired openly at the time by the Queen Mother, but the derogatory label given to it by another MP stuck), and in America Obama was once slated for wearing a brown suit.

UnaPersson · 21/10/2026 14:05

ArabellaScott · 21/10/2026 12:39

Grayson Perry was fond of his Little Bo Peep outfits. Wore one to the Turner Prize.

I remember Grayson Perry's weird little girl outfits! Wonder if he still wears them?

AskingQuestionsAllTheTime · 21/10/2026 14:07

UnaPersson · 21/10/2026 14:05

I remember Grayson Perry's weird little girl outfits! Wonder if he still wears them?

Dear Lord, how old is Grayson Perry now? Sixty-six? Mutton dressed as lamb with a vengeance if he does.

FlirtsWithRhinos · 21/10/2026 14:07

KhakiCritic · 21/10/2026 13:40

I agree entirely that men should behave respectfully towards women and respect their boundaries. That should be expected of everyone, regardless of what they’re wearing.

You also assert that too many men wear women’s clothing for problematic reasons. That’s a significant claim, and requires detailed evidence, not just personal perceptions.

I’m not asking women to disregard inappropriate behaviour or abandon reasonable personal boundaries. I’m asking why a man who has done nothing inappropriate should be regarded with suspicion simply because he enjoys feminine clothing.And I don’t think men should have to earn the freedom to wear harmless garments by first conforming to someone else’s definition of acceptable femininity.

The principle is very straightforward: the same freedom to choose clothing, and the same expectation of respectful behaviour, should apply to men and women alike.

Hello man on broadcast mode 🙄

Your failure to take what we are saying on board is exactly the type of red flag that makes women wary.

Fetish or not, we are very used to men considering their self-serving logic to be justification enough to expect women to fall into line. Women's views on the matter are merely challenges to overcome, not serious considerations to take into account.

Think about it from our perspective rather than just seeing us as a challenge to overcome...

You also assert that too many men wear women’s clothing for problematic reasons. That’s a significant claim, and requires detailed evidence, not just personal perceptions

Likewise, you have only your personal perception that most men who do or woukd like to wear women's clothes don't have a problematic relationship to women's lives. And our sample sizes are much larger than your sample of one.

You believe there is a pent up set of men who would like to dress in clothing that is currently not doing so because of cultural prejudices. Fine.

I am saying, let those men step up and prove themselves first. All they will suffer is wary women side-eying them. It's not like anyone will stop them wearing what they want.

Be the change you want to see. Let the evidence emerge to persuade us. If it's worth it, take the risk and put the work in.

You are saying we should ignore our actual experience of men, to create the conditions that you believe will allow these pent up men to flower. Our emotional work, for their benefit.

Can you see the difference?

KhakiCritic · 21/10/2026 14:09

AskingQuestionsAllTheTime · 21/10/2026 14:04

KhakiCritic
My fundamental point remains the same: we should apply the same standards to men and women, and judge people by their conduct rather than make assumptions about them based on their clothes. Because we make no such assumptions about women, do we?.

Oh, yes, we do! All the time! Haven't you read the papers any time during the past fifty years and noticed that as well as her age being given in brackets, a woman is likely to have her clothing described by them, with the implication that it is relevant to her character? Haven't you read the media tearing women in the public eye to pieces because of what they wore on this or that occasion, and that it is relevant to their behaviour? Seriously: the only time I remember a man being similarly taken down for his clothing in this country was Michael Foot for wearing a donkey jacket to the Cenotaph (it was in fact an ordinary, rather expensive, raincoat, admired openly at the time by the Queen Mother, but the derogatory label given to it by another MP stuck), and in America Obama was once slated for wearing a brown suit.

Edited

You’re absolutely right that women are judged by their clothing, often unfairly and sometimes viciously. I don’t dispute that at all, and my wording was perhaps too sweeping.

But I’m actually making a very different point to the one you’ve made. In this discussion, when the possibility is raised that a man might simply enjoy wearing a beautiful dress, the responses repeatedly turn to speculation about his motives. Is it sexual? Is it a fetish? Does he have a disorder? Is he actually a woman?

That’s not simply criticism of how someone looks or what they’ve chosen to wear. It’s questioning why they would want to wear it in the first place. Women can certainly face unfair assumptions about their intentions based on their clothing too. But we generally recognise that a woman might choose a dress simply because she likes it. Why is it so difficult to extend that same ordinary explanation to a man? That’s the big distinction I’m trying to make.

spannasaurus · 21/10/2026 14:10

UnaPersson · 21/10/2026 14:05

I remember Grayson Perry's weird little girl outfits! Wonder if he still wears them?

He doesn't wear them much now as he now longer gets a secret thrill from other people's reactions

Perry noted that fame ruined the secret thrill of being a transvestite, stating that he is no longer "the anonymous weirdo on the street" when everyone recognizes him

AskingQuestionsAllTheTime · 21/10/2026 14:11

KhakiCritic · 21/10/2026 14:09

You’re absolutely right that women are judged by their clothing, often unfairly and sometimes viciously. I don’t dispute that at all, and my wording was perhaps too sweeping.

But I’m actually making a very different point to the one you’ve made. In this discussion, when the possibility is raised that a man might simply enjoy wearing a beautiful dress, the responses repeatedly turn to speculation about his motives. Is it sexual? Is it a fetish? Does he have a disorder? Is he actually a woman?

That’s not simply criticism of how someone looks or what they’ve chosen to wear. It’s questioning why they would want to wear it in the first place. Women can certainly face unfair assumptions about their intentions based on their clothing too. But we generally recognise that a woman might choose a dress simply because she likes it. Why is it so difficult to extend that same ordinary explanation to a man? That’s the big distinction I’m trying to make.

KhakiCritic

AskingQuestionsAllTheTime · 21/10/2026 14:14

It's done it a-bloody-gain; posted when I clicked return to start a new line within my post. Gaaaah! sorry.

KhakiCritic
In this discussion, when the possibility is raised that a man might simply enjoy wearing a beautiful dress, the responses repeatedly turn to speculation about his motives. Is it sexual? Is it a fetish? Does he have a disorder? Is he actually a woman?
(my emphasis)

I don't think you are right about that. In this discussion, on this board, I very much doubt that "is he really a woman" would be asked about a man in a dress. The assumption would always be that he isn't.

KhakiCritic · 21/10/2026 14:16

FlirtsWithRhinos · 21/10/2026 14:07

Hello man on broadcast mode 🙄

Your failure to take what we are saying on board is exactly the type of red flag that makes women wary.

Fetish or not, we are very used to men considering their self-serving logic to be justification enough to expect women to fall into line. Women's views on the matter are merely challenges to overcome, not serious considerations to take into account.

Think about it from our perspective rather than just seeing us as a challenge to overcome...

You also assert that too many men wear women’s clothing for problematic reasons. That’s a significant claim, and requires detailed evidence, not just personal perceptions

Likewise, you have only your personal perception that most men who do or woukd like to wear women's clothes don't have a problematic relationship to women's lives. And our sample sizes are much larger than your sample of one.

You believe there is a pent up set of men who would like to dress in clothing that is currently not doing so because of cultural prejudices. Fine.

I am saying, let those men step up and prove themselves first. All they will suffer is wary women side-eying them. It's not like anyone will stop them wearing what they want.

Be the change you want to see. Let the evidence emerge to persuade us. If it's worth it, take the risk and put the work in.

You are saying we should ignore our actual experience of men, to create the conditions that you believe will allow these pent up men to flower. Our emotional work, for their benefit.

Can you see the difference?

Edited

I think you’re attributing a position to me that I haven’t expressed. I’m not asking women to ignore their experiences, abandon their boundaries, trust strangers or undertake emotional work for anyone else’s benefit.

I’m asking why a man’s choice to wear conventionally feminine clothing should, in itself, be treated as grounds for suspicion about his motives.

You’re right that I don’t have statistical evidence establishing the motivations of men who wear dresses. But I’m not making a statistical claim about their motivations. I’m arguing for a principle: we shouldn’t presume someone’s intentions from their clothing.

I also don’t think anyone needs to prove that they deserve to wear a harmless garment before being treated without prejudice.
Respectful conduct should be expected of everyone. And inappropriate conduct should be challenged regardless of what someone is wearing. That seems to me a reasonable standard to apply equally to men and women.

KhakiCritic · 21/10/2026 14:17

AskingQuestionsAllTheTime · 21/10/2026 14:14

It's done it a-bloody-gain; posted when I clicked return to start a new line within my post. Gaaaah! sorry.

KhakiCritic
In this discussion, when the possibility is raised that a man might simply enjoy wearing a beautiful dress, the responses repeatedly turn to speculation about his motives. Is it sexual? Is it a fetish? Does he have a disorder? Is he actually a woman?
(my emphasis)

I don't think you are right about that. In this discussion, on this board, I very much doubt that "is he really a woman" would be asked about a man in a dress. The assumption would always be that he isn't.

When I said is he a woman, I meant trans woman

UnaPersson · 21/10/2026 14:19

spannasaurus · 21/10/2026 14:10

He doesn't wear them much now as he now longer gets a secret thrill from other people's reactions

Perry noted that fame ruined the secret thrill of being a transvestite, stating that he is no longer "the anonymous weirdo on the street" when everyone recognizes him

Oh, that is interesting! Also, bleurgh. 🤢

I had innocently wondered if it was to drum up publicity for his art. Certainly got him featured in The Guardian more often than he probably would have otherwise.

AskingQuestionsAllTheTime · 21/10/2026 14:22

KhakiCritic · 21/10/2026 14:17

When I said is he a woman, I meant trans woman

So not a woman, then. Thanks for clearing that up.

ArabellaScott · 21/10/2026 14:27

KhakiCritic · 21/10/2026 13:19

Yes, I’m aware that transvestic disorder is a recognised clinical diagnosis. But wearing feminine clothing, or even experiencing sexual arousal from doing so, does NOT in itself constitute that disorder. Clinical diagnosis requires additional criteria, including significant distress or impairment.
I’m struggling to see how the existence of that diagnosis is relevant to the main principle I’m discussing.

A man wearing a dress is not evidence that he has a psychiatric condition, a sexual motive or any intention to behave inappropriately.

My fundamental point remains the same: we should apply the same standards to men and women, and judge people by their conduct rather than make assumptions about them based on their clothes. Because we make no such assumptions about women, do we?.

Men have an equal right to harmless personal self expression and if you can’t accept that, it’s nothing else but a double standard and a statement that men are forbidden to display femininity, often weaponised against them and yet women defend their own rights to exhibit masculine behaviour. Which all circles back to misogyny and the defence of male superiority.

A woman who is confronted by a man in women's clothing cannot tell whether he is doing it because he is sexually excited by it, or because he is a fervent adherent to Judith Butler's early 1990s academic theories, or for any other reason.

But there is a solid chance that he is motivated by a fetish.

We don't make the same assumptions about women because women do not commit 99% of sex crimes. And fetishes and paraphilias are overwhelmingly a male phenomenon. And men commit 80% of violent crime, are larger and stronger than women, and present a risk, as a sex class, to women, as a sex class.

Women risk assess men, out of necessity. Men present a risk to women.

I don't think men's self expression matters more than women's safety, privacy, and dignity.

ArabellaScott · 21/10/2026 14:28

UnaPersson · 21/10/2026 14:19

Oh, that is interesting! Also, bleurgh. 🤢

I had innocently wondered if it was to drum up publicity for his art. Certainly got him featured in The Guardian more often than he probably would have otherwise.

I have one of his autobiogs somewhere.

His cross dressing is very much motivated by fetish; he is quite open about it.

Coatsoff42 · 21/10/2026 14:29

It seems like we are all in agreement at last, treat everyone respectfully, accept women’s experiences and boundaries are valid.

Hooray.

ArabellaScott · 21/10/2026 14:30

https://www.bigissue.com/culture/art/grayson-perry-daily-mail-facilitated-sexual-fetish/

'I was already a transvestite by the time I was 16. I took my stepmother’s clothes, changed in the toilets behind the Chelmsford Museum and walked up and down the high street in make-up, a mini dress and a wig. I was just acting on an instinctual desire, this need to play a role. It was very sexually exciting, a big turn on. Adrenaline is a great aphrodisiac. I got the wig from an advert in the back of the Daily Mail. It was about £1.50, a shapeless, brunette, very wiggy sort of thing. I’m sure the Daily Mail would be happy to know they facilitated my sexual fetish.'

Grayson Perry: "The Daily Mail facilitated my sexual fetish!"

Turner Prize winner Grayson Perry on being thrown out of home, wanting to join the army - and why he was relieved to have a daughter

https://www.bigissue.com/culture/art/grayson-perry-daily-mail-facilitated-sexual-fetish/

FlirtsWithRhinos · 21/10/2026 14:30

KhakiCritic · 21/10/2026 14:16

I think you’re attributing a position to me that I haven’t expressed. I’m not asking women to ignore their experiences, abandon their boundaries, trust strangers or undertake emotional work for anyone else’s benefit.

I’m asking why a man’s choice to wear conventionally feminine clothing should, in itself, be treated as grounds for suspicion about his motives.

You’re right that I don’t have statistical evidence establishing the motivations of men who wear dresses. But I’m not making a statistical claim about their motivations. I’m arguing for a principle: we shouldn’t presume someone’s intentions from their clothing.

I also don’t think anyone needs to prove that they deserve to wear a harmless garment before being treated without prejudice.
Respectful conduct should be expected of everyone. And inappropriate conduct should be challenged regardless of what someone is wearing. That seems to me a reasonable standard to apply equally to men and women.

Again, broadcast mode. Did you even read my first post on this topic, on page one?

And double standards. Evidence apparently not necessary after all when it's you being challenged. 😂

Women can wear trousers now because other women in the past faced and broke the prejudices against wearing trousers by wearing them and dealing with it and changing social prejudices through experience. We didn't demand society changed first so we never had to face them. (We know there is no point in trying for that!)

ArabellaScott · 21/10/2026 14:34

https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2015/dec/14/grayson-perry-im-no-longer-the-anonymous-pervert-walking-down-the-street

' As Perry has got older, Claire’s outfits have become increasingly outlandish (he has called her Bo Peep look the “crack cocaine of femininity”).'
...
'For him, part of the appeal of cross-dressing is the sexual kick. “Humiliation is a massive turn-on,” he says. “One of the things it’s ruined for me is that I’m no longer the anonymous pervert walking down the street. Before it was quite fun being the weirdo everyone stared at.'

Grayson Perry interview: 'I’m no longer the anonymous pervert walking down the street'

As he launches his blockbuster show in Sydney, the Turner prize winner reflects on fame and the controversy over his comments on Aboriginal art

https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2015/dec/14/grayson-perry-im-no-longer-the-anonymous-pervert-walking-down-the-street

UnaPersson · 21/10/2026 14:36

ArabellaScott · 21/10/2026 14:30

https://www.bigissue.com/culture/art/grayson-perry-daily-mail-facilitated-sexual-fetish/

'I was already a transvestite by the time I was 16. I took my stepmother’s clothes, changed in the toilets behind the Chelmsford Museum and walked up and down the high street in make-up, a mini dress and a wig. I was just acting on an instinctual desire, this need to play a role. It was very sexually exciting, a big turn on. Adrenaline is a great aphrodisiac. I got the wig from an advert in the back of the Daily Mail. It was about £1.50, a shapeless, brunette, very wiggy sort of thing. I’m sure the Daily Mail would be happy to know they facilitated my sexual fetish.'

Seems like he's trying to get away from masculinity as well as indulging a fetish. Doesn't like his family much, by the sound of it. Interesting, I suppose. But if I saw someone dressed like that, I'd just instinctively avoid them.

Until quite recently I was unaware that there was such a thing as a humiliation kink.

AskingQuestionsAllTheTime · 21/10/2026 14:44

FlirtsWithRhinos
Women can wear trousers now because other women in the past faced and broke the prejudices against wearing trousers by wearing them and dealing with it and changing social prejudices through experience.

I remember in the sixties a campaign spearheaded by the local Anarchist group to try to force a chain of cafés in York (I seem to recall that one was called The Acropolis) to allow women wearing trousers to buy a cup of coffee in them. At about the same time, one of the classy London caffs, possibly the Ritz, had a rule that anyone wearing trousers must also be wearing a tie, and kept ties behind the reception desk for men who didn't happen to have one on; they reluctantly agreed that since women were nowhere mentioned in this rule, they would similarly lend any woman in a trouser-suit a tie so that she could be admitted.

Some time around then, too, a judge refused to hear a divorce case being brought by a woman because she arrived in his court wearing a trouser-suit.

I am so glad times have changed since then! I live in jeans; I have a couple of dresses for hatches, matches and dispatches, but they are definitely fancy dress.