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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

A Man in a dress- how would you feel?

439 replies

Wooopdiedoo · 16/10/2026 12:30

I'm fairly new here and have only read through a couple of posts, but I wanted to ask a question.

How would you feel if a man you knew wanted to wear "Female" (heavy on the quotation marks) clothing?

I'm specifically talking about a male whose only intention is to wear the dress because they like the dress, nothing else — no statement, no 'changing' of pronouns or wanting to be treated or referred to in any particular way, no mockery, no discussion or intention of 'becoming' a woman (again, quote unquote, not saying it's possible).

Would you genuinely be okay with this, say if your husband/friend/ colleague wearing a dress out in public? Would you have any thoughts or feelings about it, and would these affect what you say to them or how you would act?

I'm not sure how I would respond, honestly, and I know that's probably (definitely) due to my internalisation of 'gendered' norms (by that I man sex based). I think I my knee jerk reaction might be to feel inclined that its somehow not right or looks silly, before reminding myself that its just a piece of fabric and if someone likes what they like on their body, thats kindof the end of it.

On the other hand, I definitely wouldn't have the same reaction to seeing women in any clothing, and my response would always be neutral to positive.

OP posts:
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FlirtsWithRhinos · 20/10/2026 15:40

ArabellaScott · 20/10/2026 14:54

I am not sure it does prove that they get it, though.

I think they grasp that we win all the arguments, but I have the feeling that our arguments are repurposed and echoed back to us purely in an attempt to win, not because the actual points are grasped and understood.

I had a lot of experience arguing with a narcissist/controlling man; it eventually dawned on me that he would say absolutely anything at all in order to win. The truth or the arguments were just totally immaterial. Personality disordered arguments are tricky, because they shapeshift, because the person making them is not participating for the same reasons most people discuss/argue. They are measuring points by their impact on the opponent, rather than against any objective idea of truth or logic etc.

A narc might lie, or lie by omission, or parrot back what you've just said, or go on the attack. Whatever it takes. All they are trying to do is gaslight, twist, and triumph. It can be quite tiring.

Ah that is true and a very good point. I tend to assume they understand the logic even if they try to force it to support something it doesn't really, but you are right, sometimes it's just "that sounds like a bad thing therefore you must be doing that not me"

And sometimes, as you say, it's "if I can shut you up even if just because there is no way to answer an argument that mutates with every sentence made by someone who refuses to engage with what's actually being said to them, only looks for ways to twist it, then I HAVE WON!"

Choppingwoodcarryingwater · 20/10/2026 15:43

ArabellaScott · 20/10/2026 12:29

Fetishes, like all paraphilias, are overwhelmingly a male trait.

And paraphilias tend to cluster. What most paraphilias have in common is an interest in the non-consensual participation of others.

Which is absolutely predatory and presents a threat.

You act as if autogynaphila is an accepted model when in fact the psychology community does not universally recognise autogynephilia as a validated scientific concept or a distinct diagnosis. Instead, it is highly contested, heavily criticised and explicitly rejected by major medical and psychological organisations when used to explain gender identity.

While the concept has historical roots in specific diagnostic manuals, its status in modern psychology is defined by intense division and a shift away from the theory.

AskingQuestionsAllTheTime · 20/10/2026 16:28

Choppingwoodcarryingwater · 20/10/2026 00:27

Self identification is a subjective choice. In other words individuals get to identify with whatever floats their personal boat just like they do with religion.

Edited

This does not entitle individuals who self-identify as something to do with gender (as opposed to for instance football-club support and what they are a fan of) to start a persecution campaign to punish anyone who does not share their belief in whatever floats their personal boat or declines to say "yes, of course your personal boat is the one by which every other boat must be judged".

In the same way, to use the religious analogy, a Pastafarian may devoutly believe in the tentacular wonderfulness of the FSM's noodly appendages, and has every right to do so, but he or she can neither insist that everyone must agree with him or her, nor persecute anyone who does not, nor otherwise try to enforce compliance with Pastafarian belief. In particular, as far as I am concerned, the Pastafarian may not behave in such a way to a Catholic, a Hindu, an Atheist, a Jain, a Buddhist or a Baptist or a Jew, and is asking for trouble trying it with a Sufi.

Now, I can tell that you are about to say "persecution's what is done to trans people", but my wide experience of trans people, going back several decades, tells me that every single time I encounter one, I am expected to defer to the trans person's belief; if I try to state mine, or disagree in any way with their view of the world, or even imply doubt, I am shortly going to be shouted down, insulted, verbally attacked (even in my own home) and lied to about what I said less than a quarter of and hour earlier and told what I said I believed (than which it is hard to think of anything stupider, but the lie was part of the Script). So, since I recognise patterns, I tend to avoid such folk whenever possible; and that apparently is persecuting them too.

It's boring and time-wasting and tiring, and I would dearly like it if these dreary bores would stfu and stop making a nuisance of themselves. When they are not being a pita I feel very sorry for them, just as I feel sorry for anyone not quite zackerly, but that doesn't mean I feel I must encourage them.

If someone trans genuinely just goes about his or her own life as it is so often claimed everyone trans just wants to do, I am entirely happy; it's the fanatics and proselytisers I abhor, just as I abhor fanatics and proselytisers of any stripe.

ArabellaScott · 20/10/2026 21:16

Choppingwoodcarryingwater · 20/10/2026 15:43

You act as if autogynaphila is an accepted model when in fact the psychology community does not universally recognise autogynephilia as a validated scientific concept or a distinct diagnosis. Instead, it is highly contested, heavily criticised and explicitly rejected by major medical and psychological organisations when used to explain gender identity.

While the concept has historical roots in specific diagnostic manuals, its status in modern psychology is defined by intense division and a shift away from the theory.

Why are you talking about AGP? I'm talking about transvestic fetishism.
And paraphilias.

This is very well acknowledged. I'll link it to the ICD.

https://icd.who.int/browse/2026-01/mms/en#411470068

'Gender incongruence is characterised by a marked and persistent incongruence between an individual’s experienced gender and the assigned sex. Gender variant behaviour and preferences alone are not a basis for assigning the diagnoses in this group.

Exclusions
Paraphilic disorders'

ICD-11 for Mortality and Morbidity Statistics

https://icd.who.int/browse/2026-01/mms/en#2110604642

ArabellaScott · 20/10/2026 21:29

This is after a whole shedload of hard work by activists getting 'transvestic fetishism' moved from the 'mental disorder' chapter into the 'sexual disorder' chapter, in an effort to combat 'stigma'.

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5032510/

'...the ICD‐10 diagnostic guidelines define F65.1 Fetishistic transvestism as “the wearing of clothes of the opposite sex principally to obtain sexual excitement”4, without requiring any sort of distress or dysfunction and without reference to the public health or clinical relevance of this behaviour. This is at odds with ICD‐10's general guidance for what constitutes a mental disorder and contradicts ICD‐10's own statement that “social deviance or conflict alone, without personal dysfunction, should not be included in mental disorder”4. According to this principle, specific patterns of sexual arousal that are merely relatively unusual85, 86, but are not associated with distress, dysfunction or harm to the individual or to others87, 88, are not mental disorders. Labeling them as such does not contribute meaningfully to public health surveillance or to the design of health services, and may create harm to individuals so labeled89. Thus, a major consideration for the recommended revisions for ICD‐11 in this area was whether an atypical sexual arousal pattern represented a condition of public health significance and clinical importance.

The Working Group recommended that Disorders of sexual preference be renamed as Paraphilic disorders to reflect the terminology used in the current scientific literature and in clinical practice90. The Group proposed that the paraphilic disorders included in ICD‐11 consist primarily of patterns of atypical sexual arousal that focus on non‐consenting others, as these conditions could be considered to have public health implications (see Table 3). The core proposed diagnostic requirements for a Paraphilic disorder in ICD‐11 are: a) a sustained, focused and intense pattern of sexual arousal – as manifested by persistent sexual thoughts, fantasies, urges, or behaviours – that involves others whose age or status renders them unwilling or unable to consent (e.g., pre‐pubertal children, an unsuspecting individual being viewed through a window, an animal); and b) that the individual has acted on these thoughts, fantasies or urges or is markedly distressed by them.

KhakiCritic · 20/10/2026 21:51

I’ve been reading this thread with interest, but I find some of the responses genuinely troubling, particularly those suggesting that a husband wearing a dress would be grounds for divorce.

Why?

We’re talking about a man who simply enjoys wearing a particular item of clothing and he isn’t necessarily questioning his gender identity, changing who he is or asking anyone else to dress differently. He just likes the dress! Women fought long and hard for the freedom to wear trousers and other traditionally masculine clothing and one of the central arguments was that wearing trousers did not make a woman any less of a woman. Her clothing did not determine her identity, femininity or worth, and rightly so. So why isn’t the same principle extended to men? Why should a man wearing a dress make him any less of a man?

I wonder whether some of the reactions here reveal a form of internalised misogyny that people may not even recognise in themselves. If a man embracing something traditionally feminine is seen as degrading, embarrassing or diminishing himself, what does that say about how femininity is valued?
Are we unconsciously treating masculinity as something superior that a man must protect, and femininity as something inferior that he must avoid? Because that isn’t equality whatsoever. It’s actually a damaging hierarchy dressed up as so called tradition. Of course, everyone is entitled to their personal preferences, including what they find attractive in a partner but there’s a significant difference between saying “I don’t particularly like my husband in that outfit” and saying “I would divorce him for wearing it.”

I find it extraordinary that we can celebrate a woman wearing a beautifully tailored man’s suit as confident and stylish, yet regard a man wearing a beautiful dress as somehow unacceptable. And there’s another troubling aspect to some of the responses here, that is, the assumption that a man wearing a dress must have some hidden motive. It's utter nonsense and incredibly judgemental. Why should enjoying a beautiful dress automatically be interpreted as a sexual fetish, a statement about gender identity or evidence of something more complicated? We generally accept that women can enjoy the beauty, feel, fit and elegance of their clothes without requiring some deeper explanation. Why can’t a man experience exactly the same pleasure? Surely we should take people at their word rather than invent motives for them.

And what about the argument I came across during this thread that dresses simply don’t suit men’s bodies? I'd point out that women’s bodies come in an enormous variety of shapes and proportions and some women have broad shoulders, narrow hips, muscular legs or little waist definition. Nobody should suggest that those women must avoid dresses because their bodies don’t conform to a particular ideal of femininity. So why apply that reasoning to men? It's a double standard and a garment either fits a particular person or it doesn’t. Whether someone finds it flattering is a matter of individual taste but neither question justifies deciding that an entire sex shouldn’t wear it.

I’ve also noticed the suggestion that men are already free to wear dresses, so there’s no problem to address. But being legally free to wear something is NOT the same as being free from ridicule, suspicion or social punishment for doing so. If a man can wear a dress but risks being treated as less masculine, less respectable or even unworthy of his marriage, surely we haven’t achieved genuine equality of personal expression.

It’s encouraging that some contributors here recognise this and have described men wearing dresses, skirts or heels as an ordinary part of life. Those experiences show that acceptance is entirely possible without turning someone’s clothing into a debate about their identity. And I think it’s important to separate this question from wider arguments about gender identity. A man can be entirely comfortable being a man and still love wearing beautiful, traditionally feminine clothes. Those two things are not contradictory. Surely the freedom women gained to dress as they choose should be a freedom we extend to everyone, rather than a privilege that works in only one direction. A dress doesn’t diminish a man’s masculinity any more than trousers diminish a woman’s femininity.

Fabric has no gender and enjoying the beauty, feel or elegance of a garment is a human preference, not a female privilege. And there’s one final point that I think goes to the very heart of this discussion. If femininity is something to value and celebrate in women, why should it be something to reject or ridicule in men? For generations, boys and men have been insulted by being compared to girls or women. They’re told to “man up”, mocked for being feminine, or made to feel that anything associated with womanhood somehow diminishes them. But why should femininity be humiliating? It's not humiliating to be a woman, is it?

If being feminine is not inferior to being masculine, why should a man wearing a dress be regarded as embarrassing, degrading or emasculating? And isn’t there a profound contradiction when women who rightly demand respect for their own femininity then treat femininity as something shameful when expressed by a man? This is where I believe some of these attitudes may reflect internalised misogyny, even when the people expressing them would strongly reject that description. If femininity is used to diminish a man, we are implicitly saying that femininity itself is something lesser and that should trouble anyone who believes in equality because a man doesn’t become less worthy of respect by embracing something feminine. Nor does he become less of a man. Quite the opposite in fact as he is not afraid to be who he is.

Choppingwoodcarryingwater · 20/10/2026 21:51

ArabellaScott · 20/10/2026 21:16

Why are you talking about AGP? I'm talking about transvestic fetishism.
And paraphilias.

This is very well acknowledged. I'll link it to the ICD.

https://icd.who.int/browse/2026-01/mms/en#411470068

'Gender incongruence is characterised by a marked and persistent incongruence between an individual’s experienced gender and the assigned sex. Gender variant behaviour and preferences alone are not a basis for assigning the diagnoses in this group.

Exclusions
Paraphilic disorders'

Transvestic Disorder vs. Gender Incongruence: While older medical models historically confused cross-gender expression or behaviors (such as transvestism) with gender identity, modern psychiatric and medical classifications explicitly separate them. Transvestic disorder involves sexual arousal from cross-dressing, whereas gender incongruence is about an individual's core sense of gender identity rather than a sexual fetish or paraphilia. 1, 2]

Gender incongruence and transgender health in the ICD

https://www.who.int/standards/classifications/frequently-asked-questions/gender-incongruence-and-transgender-health-in-the-icd

Ereshkigalangcleg · 20/10/2026 23:02

MrPrettyDamnCosmic · 20/10/2026 13:42

Pattern matching helps in recognising those posters popping up with new usernames but still the same old tedious arguments.

Yes, exactly.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 20/10/2026 23:04

FlirtsWithRhinos · 20/10/2026 14:14

Like a bad argument will suddenly work because it's made under a different name. 😂

Not sure it needs to “work” per se

ArabellaScott · 21/10/2026 07:56

KhakiCritic · 20/10/2026 21:51

I’ve been reading this thread with interest, but I find some of the responses genuinely troubling, particularly those suggesting that a husband wearing a dress would be grounds for divorce.

Why?

We’re talking about a man who simply enjoys wearing a particular item of clothing and he isn’t necessarily questioning his gender identity, changing who he is or asking anyone else to dress differently. He just likes the dress! Women fought long and hard for the freedom to wear trousers and other traditionally masculine clothing and one of the central arguments was that wearing trousers did not make a woman any less of a woman. Her clothing did not determine her identity, femininity or worth, and rightly so. So why isn’t the same principle extended to men? Why should a man wearing a dress make him any less of a man?

I wonder whether some of the reactions here reveal a form of internalised misogyny that people may not even recognise in themselves. If a man embracing something traditionally feminine is seen as degrading, embarrassing or diminishing himself, what does that say about how femininity is valued?
Are we unconsciously treating masculinity as something superior that a man must protect, and femininity as something inferior that he must avoid? Because that isn’t equality whatsoever. It’s actually a damaging hierarchy dressed up as so called tradition. Of course, everyone is entitled to their personal preferences, including what they find attractive in a partner but there’s a significant difference between saying “I don’t particularly like my husband in that outfit” and saying “I would divorce him for wearing it.”

I find it extraordinary that we can celebrate a woman wearing a beautifully tailored man’s suit as confident and stylish, yet regard a man wearing a beautiful dress as somehow unacceptable. And there’s another troubling aspect to some of the responses here, that is, the assumption that a man wearing a dress must have some hidden motive. It's utter nonsense and incredibly judgemental. Why should enjoying a beautiful dress automatically be interpreted as a sexual fetish, a statement about gender identity or evidence of something more complicated? We generally accept that women can enjoy the beauty, feel, fit and elegance of their clothes without requiring some deeper explanation. Why can’t a man experience exactly the same pleasure? Surely we should take people at their word rather than invent motives for them.

And what about the argument I came across during this thread that dresses simply don’t suit men’s bodies? I'd point out that women’s bodies come in an enormous variety of shapes and proportions and some women have broad shoulders, narrow hips, muscular legs or little waist definition. Nobody should suggest that those women must avoid dresses because their bodies don’t conform to a particular ideal of femininity. So why apply that reasoning to men? It's a double standard and a garment either fits a particular person or it doesn’t. Whether someone finds it flattering is a matter of individual taste but neither question justifies deciding that an entire sex shouldn’t wear it.

I’ve also noticed the suggestion that men are already free to wear dresses, so there’s no problem to address. But being legally free to wear something is NOT the same as being free from ridicule, suspicion or social punishment for doing so. If a man can wear a dress but risks being treated as less masculine, less respectable or even unworthy of his marriage, surely we haven’t achieved genuine equality of personal expression.

It’s encouraging that some contributors here recognise this and have described men wearing dresses, skirts or heels as an ordinary part of life. Those experiences show that acceptance is entirely possible without turning someone’s clothing into a debate about their identity. And I think it’s important to separate this question from wider arguments about gender identity. A man can be entirely comfortable being a man and still love wearing beautiful, traditionally feminine clothes. Those two things are not contradictory. Surely the freedom women gained to dress as they choose should be a freedom we extend to everyone, rather than a privilege that works in only one direction. A dress doesn’t diminish a man’s masculinity any more than trousers diminish a woman’s femininity.

Fabric has no gender and enjoying the beauty, feel or elegance of a garment is a human preference, not a female privilege. And there’s one final point that I think goes to the very heart of this discussion. If femininity is something to value and celebrate in women, why should it be something to reject or ridicule in men? For generations, boys and men have been insulted by being compared to girls or women. They’re told to “man up”, mocked for being feminine, or made to feel that anything associated with womanhood somehow diminishes them. But why should femininity be humiliating? It's not humiliating to be a woman, is it?

If being feminine is not inferior to being masculine, why should a man wearing a dress be regarded as embarrassing, degrading or emasculating? And isn’t there a profound contradiction when women who rightly demand respect for their own femininity then treat femininity as something shameful when expressed by a man? This is where I believe some of these attitudes may reflect internalised misogyny, even when the people expressing them would strongly reject that description. If femininity is used to diminish a man, we are implicitly saying that femininity itself is something lesser and that should trouble anyone who believes in equality because a man doesn’t become less worthy of respect by embracing something feminine. Nor does he become less of a man. Quite the opposite in fact as he is not afraid to be who he is.

'...the assumption that a man wearing a dress must have some hidden motive. It's utter nonsense and incredibly judgemental. Why should enjoying a beautiful dress automatically be interpreted as a sexual fetish, a statement about gender identity or evidence of something more complicated?'

Your argument is logical and rational and fair. Unfortunately, society isn't.

There are power imbalances between women and men. And there are men who get off on wearing women's clothing, I'm afraid.

There are no doubt some men who cross dress for other reasons.

KhakiCritic · 21/10/2026 08:34

ArabellaScott · 21/10/2026 07:56

'...the assumption that a man wearing a dress must have some hidden motive. It's utter nonsense and incredibly judgemental. Why should enjoying a beautiful dress automatically be interpreted as a sexual fetish, a statement about gender identity or evidence of something more complicated?'

Your argument is logical and rational and fair. Unfortunately, society isn't.

There are power imbalances between women and men. And there are men who get off on wearing women's clothing, I'm afraid.

There are no doubt some men who cross dress for other reasons.

Thank you. I appreciate you acknowledging that the argument is logical, rational and fair.
I agree that society isn’t always fair, and that power imbalances between men and women exist. But surely that makes it more important to challenge unfair assumptions, rather than accept them?

I’m also interested in why sexual motivation comes into the discussion so quickly. Some people of either sex may find particular clothing sexually exciting, but why should that lead us to assume anything about a man who simply enjoys wearing a dress? Wearing a dress is not inherently a sexual act.

And I think this brings us back to the central question: why do we find it so difficult to accept that a man might simply enjoy the beauty, feel and style of traditionally feminine clothing, without requiring some deeper explanation? If we agree the principle is fair, shouldn’t we be questioning the prejudices that prevent it from being accepted?

UnaPersson · 21/10/2026 11:32

DialSquare · 19/10/2026 22:34

It was just so weird. She kept the bonnet on all through the meal! And the man she was with was wearing a smart suit and looked totally nondescript.

Sounds a bit like Japanese Lolita style? It's an alt-fashion thing.

FlirtsWithRhinos · 21/10/2026 12:02

KhakiCritic · 21/10/2026 08:34

Thank you. I appreciate you acknowledging that the argument is logical, rational and fair.
I agree that society isn’t always fair, and that power imbalances between men and women exist. But surely that makes it more important to challenge unfair assumptions, rather than accept them?

I’m also interested in why sexual motivation comes into the discussion so quickly. Some people of either sex may find particular clothing sexually exciting, but why should that lead us to assume anything about a man who simply enjoys wearing a dress? Wearing a dress is not inherently a sexual act.

And I think this brings us back to the central question: why do we find it so difficult to accept that a man might simply enjoy the beauty, feel and style of traditionally feminine clothing, without requiring some deeper explanation? If we agree the principle is fair, shouldn’t we be questioning the prejudices that prevent it from being accepted?

"We" do.

Problem is right now too many men who adopt women's clothing do for problemstic reasons.

If you want to change that, start wearing whatever you want while being respectful of women, in personal interactions and through your behaviour.

Don't adopt different, female coded mannerisms that are not your normal behaviour just because of your clothes.

Don't, don't pad your chest out or wear a bra!

Don't try to insinuate yourself into women's language, spaces or groups. Just be you, in a dress.

The more that happens, the more men like you, just a bloke in a dress, will be normalised by society.

But don't make it women's job to pretend we don't currently have very good reasons to be suspicious. You have to be the change first.

DialSquare · 21/10/2026 12:34

UnaPersson · 21/10/2026 11:32

Sounds a bit like Japanese Lolita style? It's an alt-fashion thing.

I just googled and it is very similar so could be. This outfit was an almost exact replica of Bo Peep’s dress and bonnet but in a muted black and white.

ArabellaScott · 21/10/2026 12:39

UnaPersson · 21/10/2026 11:32

Sounds a bit like Japanese Lolita style? It's an alt-fashion thing.

Grayson Perry was fond of his Little Bo Peep outfits. Wore one to the Turner Prize.

ArabellaScott · 21/10/2026 12:43

KhakiCritic · 21/10/2026 08:34

Thank you. I appreciate you acknowledging that the argument is logical, rational and fair.
I agree that society isn’t always fair, and that power imbalances between men and women exist. But surely that makes it more important to challenge unfair assumptions, rather than accept them?

I’m also interested in why sexual motivation comes into the discussion so quickly. Some people of either sex may find particular clothing sexually exciting, but why should that lead us to assume anything about a man who simply enjoys wearing a dress? Wearing a dress is not inherently a sexual act.

And I think this brings us back to the central question: why do we find it so difficult to accept that a man might simply enjoy the beauty, feel and style of traditionally feminine clothing, without requiring some deeper explanation? If we agree the principle is fair, shouldn’t we be questioning the prejudices that prevent it from being accepted?

Because, as I said, of experience. You do grasp that its a fetish, yes?

Coatsoff42 · 21/10/2026 12:44

why do we find it so difficult to accept that a man might simply enjoy the beauty, feel and style of traditionally feminine clothing, without requiring some deeper explanation?

It’s easy to accept a man MIGHT wear a dress because it feels nice, but it’s also easy to accept he MIGHT NOT have that motive. Most women have experienced men pushing boundaries, sexual or otherwise, and are cautious. I’m surprised this has not occurred to you. It’s not prejudice if its hard won experience.

ArabellaScott · 21/10/2026 12:45

Its sure as fuck not up to women to squash their discomfort and pander to men to 'counter prejudice'. Womens safety, privacy, and dignity counts.

ArabellaScott · 21/10/2026 12:47

'Stealing is wrong therefore we should not lock our house doors in order to encourage people to trust each other'

Coatsoff42 · 21/10/2026 12:55

ArabellaScott · 21/10/2026 12:47

'Stealing is wrong therefore we should not lock our house doors in order to encourage people to trust each other'

Don’t be prejudiced, just let any random off the street work in a nursery, most people are lovely.

KhakiCritic · 21/10/2026 13:04

ArabellaScott · 21/10/2026 12:43

Because, as I said, of experience. You do grasp that its a fetish, yes?

You are making an assumption it’s a fetish. It’s not necessarily true.

Women can enjoy wearing beautiful, sensual or revealing clothing. Some may even experience sexual pleasure from how those clothes make them feel. Yet we don’t generally treat the mere possibility of that pleasure as a reason to question their right to wear them. So why should we treat a man differently?

For me, the fundamental issue is that the same principles should apply to men and women. If we accept that women can enjoy beautiful, sensual clothing for aesthetic, emotional or even sexual reasons without automatically judging their character, why shouldn’t men be afforded exactly the same freedom?

If wearing trousers doesn’t diminish a woman’s womanhood, why should wearing a dress diminish a man’s manhood? And if we reject assumptions about women’s motives based solely on their clothing, surely we should reject equivalent assumptions about men.

Equality has to work in both directions. Otherwise, we’re simply replacing one set of restrictive expectations with another.

ArabellaScott · 21/10/2026 13:05

KhakiCritic · 21/10/2026 13:04

You are making an assumption it’s a fetish. It’s not necessarily true.

Women can enjoy wearing beautiful, sensual or revealing clothing. Some may even experience sexual pleasure from how those clothes make them feel. Yet we don’t generally treat the mere possibility of that pleasure as a reason to question their right to wear them. So why should we treat a man differently?

For me, the fundamental issue is that the same principles should apply to men and women. If we accept that women can enjoy beautiful, sensual clothing for aesthetic, emotional or even sexual reasons without automatically judging their character, why shouldn’t men be afforded exactly the same freedom?

If wearing trousers doesn’t diminish a woman’s womanhood, why should wearing a dress diminish a man’s manhood? And if we reject assumptions about women’s motives based solely on their clothing, surely we should reject equivalent assumptions about men.

Equality has to work in both directions. Otherwise, we’re simply replacing one set of restrictive expectations with another.

Do you grasp that for some men, transvestite fetishism is a disorder?

KhakiCritic · 21/10/2026 13:19

ArabellaScott · 21/10/2026 13:05

Do you grasp that for some men, transvestite fetishism is a disorder?

Yes, I’m aware that transvestic disorder is a recognised clinical diagnosis. But wearing feminine clothing, or even experiencing sexual arousal from doing so, does NOT in itself constitute that disorder. Clinical diagnosis requires additional criteria, including significant distress or impairment.
I’m struggling to see how the existence of that diagnosis is relevant to the main principle I’m discussing.

A man wearing a dress is not evidence that he has a psychiatric condition, a sexual motive or any intention to behave inappropriately.

My fundamental point remains the same: we should apply the same standards to men and women, and judge people by their conduct rather than make assumptions about them based on their clothes. Because we make no such assumptions about women, do we?.

Men have an equal right to harmless personal self expression and if you can’t accept that, it’s nothing else but a double standard and a statement that men are forbidden to display femininity, often weaponised against them and yet women defend their own rights to exhibit masculine behaviour. Which all circles back to misogyny and the defence of male superiority.

Coatsoff42 · 21/10/2026 13:26

@KhakiCritic if you saw a man in a dress would you consider that they might be a transwoman? Or would you assume they are a man?

KhakiCritic · 21/10/2026 13:40

FlirtsWithRhinos · 21/10/2026 12:02

"We" do.

Problem is right now too many men who adopt women's clothing do for problemstic reasons.

If you want to change that, start wearing whatever you want while being respectful of women, in personal interactions and through your behaviour.

Don't adopt different, female coded mannerisms that are not your normal behaviour just because of your clothes.

Don't, don't pad your chest out or wear a bra!

Don't try to insinuate yourself into women's language, spaces or groups. Just be you, in a dress.

The more that happens, the more men like you, just a bloke in a dress, will be normalised by society.

But don't make it women's job to pretend we don't currently have very good reasons to be suspicious. You have to be the change first.

I agree entirely that men should behave respectfully towards women and respect their boundaries. That should be expected of everyone, regardless of what they’re wearing.

You also assert that too many men wear women’s clothing for problematic reasons. That’s a significant claim, and requires detailed evidence, not just personal perceptions.

I’m not asking women to disregard inappropriate behaviour or abandon reasonable personal boundaries. I’m asking why a man who has done nothing inappropriate should be regarded with suspicion simply because he enjoys feminine clothing.And I don’t think men should have to earn the freedom to wear harmless garments by first conforming to someone else’s definition of acceptable femininity.

The principle is very straightforward: the same freedom to choose clothing, and the same expectation of respectful behaviour, should apply to men and women alike.