Do intersex people's views on pronoun use count in sex and gender discussions?

[46XYDSD]

I want to raise a pronoun-related issue which I think has been largely ignored (if it hasn't, I'd be very interested to see where it's been discussed).

I belong to the "I" in the alphabet soup, although given that "Intersex" (i.e. DSDs) is neither an identity nor a sexuality (it is an umbrella term for a range of congenital medical disorders) I don't think it should be included. But that is another matter.

Anyway, given that I am included in the alphabet, I assume I'm allowed a say in how I feel about pronoun usage. (And if not, why not?)

My condition means that I have male chromosomes but am phenotypically female. I do not look (or act) remotely male. If someone were to ask me my pronouns - i.e. imply that it's not fucking obvious by taking one glance at me - I would be both offended and hurt.

So my question is: do the opinions of the other "letters" count on this issue, or is it only the "T" that matters?

Do you accept that there are people who will only ever refer to you and consider you as a male/man?

I don't consider trans and DSD to be remotely related, personally.

Well, I don't know OP's DSD but if she doesn't have an SRY ("make male" gene) on her Y chromosome, they would be incorrect to think that.

I would also regard people with CAIS as women - in effect, there's a make male instruction but the body doesn't act on it because it is completely insensitive to androgens, although I appreciate that's a slightly more grey area.

No. Can you give me a situation where that would happen? Let's assume we're talking about someone who isn't party to my medical notes.

No, neither do I.

Given that the L, the G and the B don't count, I suspect the I doesn't either and it's all about the T (and perhaps also the Q, because that's 'identity').

I have a friend with Swyer Syndrome who is very obviously female. If anyone asked her what her pronouns were I think she would roll her eyes in exasperation but perhaps also be inwardly hurt in the way you are describing. In her case, no-one would ask because they were in doubt about her sex. They'd assume she was a near-middle-aged woman and would only be asking because they assumed anyone might have a desire for bespoke language usage.

Thank you. This is a fundamental point.

Wow! Alcove got in very quickly - nothing better to do than sit here fishing?

I have met someone with your same condition @46XYDSD and had no problem at all thinking of them as a woman or referring to them as such. There was no maleness to be seen, heard or smelled (men do smell different).

I don't need to tell you that it's medical matters where your DSD makes itself felt. Of course you can pitch in with your views on pronouns. If you're anything like the person I met, I'd struggle if asked to use male pronouns of you.

Trans and DSDs are, as OP rightly says, not similar at all.

I'd assume OP was female and use female pronouns, and if I discovered she had XY chromosomes and a DSD, I'd still think of her as being female.

And yes, OP, I think that is the alphabet soup types insist on including the I, then people with DSDs should definitely have a say in the pronoun discussion.

But anyone who disagrees with the Borg is deemed guilty of wrongthink and cast into the outer darkness.

The alphabet people need to stop saying intersex.
They need to say DSD and then specifically, which one they mean eg Turner Syndrome. And they definitely need to stop using these conditions to try and muddy the waters. My Turner Syndrome colleague is rightly furious. She is clearly a woman and it is very dishonest for others to imply she is intersex.
And yes obviously you get to shout as loudly as you like about pronouns and how you don't want to be dragged into this nonsense as a kind 'gotcha'.

I can see how LGB groups came about as people experienced prejudice and discrimination. I have no problem with these letters (not that it's up to me, but it makes sense as a grouping).

Thank you. Perhaps we are friends...!

To be clear, I can see absolute logic in the LGB grouping - I just mean that their needs are gaily disregarded in the new world of TQ worship.

Perhaps we are?! That would be a coincidence. Although there are probably quite a few Swyers women kicking around.

Just need to correct you there about CAIS because I looked into it a lot the other day. The androgen insensitivity means that the androgens aren't acted on. But there are other elements of having a Y chromosome which are acted on and follow the "make male" genetic instruction. They aren't as clear as the results produced by androgens, but a person with CAIS isn't completely female.

Regarding pronouns, I'm clear in my own head that anyone with a body that appears female who has been brought up as a female should be called she if that's what they want.

I don't, though, believe that anyone with a Y chromosome should be in female sport.

It would, but we're only 1:80,000, so not that many of us, relatively speaking (about 100,000 of us in the world). And even fewer who are near middle aged!!

Thanks everyone (well, almost everyone...). I was hesitant about starting this thread, but so far am glad I did.

Tbh, the alphabetis need to leave those with DSDs alone. They only use them to try to push men into women's changing rooms, sports etc. They have zero interest in people with DSDs or their welfare.

I hope you're not troubled by the pronoun police OP and that your thread doesn't get clogged up by well meaning posters wittering on about their knowledege of DSDs etc.

Any time you want to play single sex sports.
You have a y chromosome and as such cant compeat in women's sports and most have brought back sex screening so it will come up

Surprisingly, there is a small group of very vocal and militant people with DSDs who are fully captured, refer to themselves as intersex and don't like their DSDs to be described as medical conditions.

Less surprisingly, they don't appreciate dissenting voices.

That wasn't the question.

L, G, B, H = sexualities - who you are phsically attracted to

DSDs are medical issues that affect males and females and do not determine sexuality.
Nobody is "intersex", mammals are all male or female

Those with DSDs are best moving their medical needs WELL AWAY
form the identity politics loons

Only the T & Q matter, they're the Gender Idiots, just because they hijacked DSD and called it I doesn't me you have to pay any attention to them, they won't notice you're not part of the cult, they're to me, me, me to know nobody cares a fig for their 'identity' claptrap.

If anyone asks you for your pronouns, don't take it personally, it's not that they can't tell straight away you're a women, it's because they're zombiefied, and programmed to ask such inane stupid questions. Which is their problem not yours, just say you're not a member of the cult.

My question would be how many of those who call themselves intersex actually have a dsd.
I say this because some of tge loudest people online who claim to be intersex have been proven not to have any DSDs

Oh I think it is the question

taking the post at face value however

i mean the norm is that you should follow medical advice and work with your medical team

and how you appear and choose to present and the pronouns that are used as a result are not for anyone else to worry about

unless OP is saying that they would have to tell people what pronouns to use - then it’s forced speech

OP had a very rare DSD

This. It's horrible how such a condition has been co-opted by people who don't have it.

I suspect your opinion will only count if it’s the ‘right’ one.