Poor poor men and boys

[Pippincoxapple]

I have noticed that there has been a rush of late to train men and boys on how not to attack or rape women. I feel so foolish. I thought not attacking women and girls was quite easy.

But no. Special courses need to be given. If they have not taken one of these courses, it is entirely not their fault if they accidentally attack us. Must be all those men "accidentally" raping women we have heard about over the years.

Oops, I accidentally tripped and removed several layers of clothing from both myself and someone else. And oops! I accidentally started raping her. How did this happen?

I've heard of some poor men who have the misfortune to trip over and end up with their penis inside a woman's vagina. Such cases have even been before the courts when the woman foolishly thinks she's been raped.

But I haven't heard about these courses - are they part of the government's VAWG initiatives? (They won't make a blind bit of difference anyway).

One can only hope. The courses may not help much, but its better than the nothing being done before now.

Proper and appropriate punishment for sexual assault and rape would be a good place to start. Chemical castration for convicted rapists of under age children. Immediate and permanent deportation for those here illegally.
Ok, I’m ready, shoot me.

No quibbles from me.

And additionally for sexual offenders serving custodial sentences to do so in General Population, NOT in segregation. There are some endearingly old school values held by many male prisoners.
Vindictive? Moi?

I completely disagree with this.

It should be surgical castration with no provision for any form of hormone replacement.

I really don't think the Government can win on this. If they advise women to take precautions then they're accused of victim blaming, but if they actively try outreach towards men and boys to prevent them from becoming sexual offenders and rapists - then nonsense like this is said. It's all very well saying 'don't rape' but that isn't going to stop a determined would-be rapist - but education might actually prevent some men from taking advantage of a situation and becoming a rapist - which must surely be A Good Thing.

Don’t disagree with the premise of this thread, but remember, we’re their mums. We have to teach them right and how how to ignore the gibberish out there.

Not disagreeing at all but for which offences?
All?
I’m still apoplectic with rage at the youth referral orders initially given to the 3 worthless pieces of shit in Hampshire so not exactly impartial.

This is where it does get difficult. It's absolutely right to put the onus on men not to commit rape, rather than on women to somehow avoid it by constraining their lives - which doesn't work anyway. But we also know that these men already know it's wrong. They just don't care.
TELLING them not to just isn't enough. There needs to be consequences. Proper actual punitive action.
Let's face it. Men rape because they can. No other reason.
They want to and they can, so they do.

As mentioned in the post. For men who rape children.

I totally agree with this. I do think it might make some of them stop and think.

If they are considering rape it's already too late.

Teaching them to see people who happen to have female bodies as actually of value, and getting them to internalise the belief that a man who rapes (rapes either sex) is showing himself to be weak and pathetic rather than strong and winning, would be a good start.

It's not too late until they've actually raped. People can be turned around. However once they have harmed another - then it's about rehabilitation and punishment and they go to the back of the queue for help.

The community order trio are being re-sentenced.

Lady Hale wants to review the rape laws, hope she’s started.

I'll rephrase.

Addressing this by talking about rape as if that's a problem that just happpens to exist is going to be far less effective than earlier interventions that focus on stopping the rot before it starts by improving attitudes to female bodies and helping develop healthy ideas of manhood.

Some men with problematic ideas about women genuinely change, yes, but the majority just learn not to admit to certain beliefs outside circles of like-minded men. The earlier the intervention starts the better the chance of stopping those ideas developing in the first place.

Agreed. There is nuance in this and far more needs to be done.

This whole things is a mess.

As a society we totally have our heads in the sand about the way sexual assault and rape is handled by the police and judicial system - assaulted women have a Herculean effort to even bring a prosecution let alone justice in court.

Conversely we have a proportion of the population who clearly have no problem with men in women’s spaces in the name of “be kind” which leads to women having to call their rapists ‘she’ and say ‘her penis’ in court.

We have hard working nurses losing their jobs for not wanting to change in front of men and just asking for privacy.

The civil service, the unions and the NHS continue to ignore women’s right to dignity and respect.

We are encouraging an increase in conservative Islam and swathes of immigration from countries that are positively mediaeval when it comes to attitudes toward girls and women.

This ‘training’ - if I read the article right - is couched in language that suggests it’s protecting them from ‘getting into trouble’ rather than protecting girls and women.

It’s really is infuriating and depressing. Society really doesn’t give a shit about us does it?

There was actually a case a few years ago where a man's claim that he tripped and fell into someone's vagina was actually believed. I'm still in shock. Luke Littler doesn't have that accuracy with the darts.

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/millionaire-ehsan-abdulaziz-who-said-he-accidentally-tripped-and-penetrated-teen-is-cleared-of-rape-a6774946.html

I don't thinknits wrong that the government is finally focusing on perpetrators after so many years of telling girls and women that safety is our responsibility. I just think its nuts that this even has to be said.

No more of this girls being told that if a boy hurts them its because he likes them.

This rapist raped a bedbound woman in her 70s and claimed she’d assaulted him. His lawyer said the victim had treated him with “friendliness” and his “cultural background meant he didn’t understand those manners and behaviours”.
She said his “background and cultural upbringing” should be taken into account to “understand how this offending came about”.

If some men think it’s ok to treat women like that, then they’re the ones who should be kept at home in burkas.

www.thetimes.com/article/e1a3dbb2-f0dd-423f-a983-f02dc8a546a4?shareToken=184a7f4863c6c439b717c27c78d39736

Where were their parents whilst they were growing up? Why weren’t their fathers and mothers instilling values and behaviours in them?

If proper parenting for 18 years didn’t work then I doubt a short education course will.

I think castrating rapists is an excellent idea…

BUT you’d have to be absolutely certain they were guilty first. And with a punishment like that, I think juries would be more reluctant to convict.

People are bad at understanding consent generally. Girls aren't better at understanding consent and when it has been violated, whether they are the perpetrator or the victim. We all need to do better with future generations.

Castrating doesn't necessarily remove the urge, just the tool. It's a brain thing. So, with the additional resentment, may lead to worse assaults. Chemical castration, as with Alan Turing might work. Basing the first claim on the treatment of Peter Abelard, who didn't deserve it, as Turing didn't.