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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Richard Dawkins

53 replies

zanahoria · Yesterday 11:11

He is similarly despairing about the tenor of the debate around trans rights. “The idea seems to be that it doesn’t matter what’s objectively true, what matters is the way you feel. That’s ridiculous. Just because you feel you’re a woman – I guess you can have your delusion if you like, but if you’re 6ft 4in and you go to swimming competitions and walk away with all the medals, that’s just dishonest. That’s cheating.”
What he particularly hates is the way the trans debate is sometimes framed as something unworthy of debate at all. “I really despise the tactics of the trans people, the way they won’t actually argue the case but just cancel people. That’s contemptible,” he says. “It’s horrible that they can’t actually just have a civilised conversation… You can’t discuss it. You just get people cancelled, get publishers bullied into cancelling books, and women forced to change in front of fully intact males. They’re put in female prisons… It’s a scandal.”
What does he make of the claim that vulnerable trans people might be nudged towards taking their own lives if their rights are not extended or defended? “Nonsense. That’s a great myth. These so-called suicidal people – they’re mentally screwed-up anyway.”

https://archive.ph/BXlJr

OP posts:
MarcTheGenderSkeptic · Today 04:34

Baileyonice · Today 01:27

Biological sex isn't the silver bullet you think it is. Ultimately, proportionality/ rights balancing applies to the individual circumstances involved that are largely determined by the prevailing culture of the country involved.

You and TRAs are the ones not being proportional.
Your side unequivocally forced no debate, instant silencing for anyone questioning a TRA absolutism position.
That showed that your position was built on a foundation of sand.
Proportionality would have meant third spaces, an open category in sports alongside absolutely preserving the women's category, a total understanding that bodies born men cannot be near women in hypersensitive situations like toilets/changing rooms/refuges/prisons.
And zero push for the medicalization of adolescents, realizing that "first, do no harm" can never extend to irreversible changes in a group who can't readily comprehend lifelong change at that age.
Had there been any propensity to talk openly and acknowledge the extreme burden put upon women, outcomes on deep antipathy may have been different.
But, the last 10-15 years can't be erased.

Baileyonice · Today 05:41

MarcTheGenderSkeptic · Today 04:34

You and TRAs are the ones not being proportional.
Your side unequivocally forced no debate, instant silencing for anyone questioning a TRA absolutism position.
That showed that your position was built on a foundation of sand.
Proportionality would have meant third spaces, an open category in sports alongside absolutely preserving the women's category, a total understanding that bodies born men cannot be near women in hypersensitive situations like toilets/changing rooms/refuges/prisons.
And zero push for the medicalization of adolescents, realizing that "first, do no harm" can never extend to irreversible changes in a group who can't readily comprehend lifelong change at that age.
Had there been any propensity to talk openly and acknowledge the extreme burden put upon women, outcomes on deep antipathy may have been different.
But, the last 10-15 years can't be erased.

Proportionality/rights balancing is a legal term & my comment was referring to this.

In any case, rights in layman's terms don't only operate one way.

And save the 'no debate' accusations for those who use law fare as a silencing tactic.

https://www.helenwebberley.com/news/rowling-amnesty-international-legal-threats-anti-trans-groups

Rowling bankrolls attacks on Amnesty over anti-trans report | Dr Helen Webberley

Rowling bankrolls attacks on Amnesty over anti-trans report | Dr Helen Webberley

When financial pressure silences a human rights body, trans people pay the price. Helen Webberley on Rowling, Amnesty, and who this serves.

https://www.helenwebberley.com/news/rowling-amnesty-international-legal-threats-anti-trans-groups

NeelyOHara · Today 06:28

I saw that news about JK Rowling, what a queen she is.

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