If passport says female

[SpringCalling]

I feel like i should know the answer but I don’t! My friends’ trans son has changed their name by deed poll and has a new passport where sex is now shown as female. They do not pass as a woman. Currently they hardly leave home but hopefully that will gradually change over time. I am just wanting to know if the passport change means they can access female only facilities if challenged? Asking as their mental health is so fragile I’d think they need to be well prepared for whatever is the likely outcome.

Single sex services and spaces are - as per the FWS Supreme Court case of April last year - about biology.

Passing, paperwork, and internal feelings are all irrelevant.

Changing the passport to say F just indicates the gender that the person identifies as, that's all. A assport saying F does not prove anything.

When services are provided for males and females separately, that is on the basis of sex, which does not change, and a male person with a female gender and a passport saying F is still make sex. It's generally accepted by most people that if it would cause a male person distress to ha e to use the mens loos then that's an accessibility need and it's perfectly reasonable touse the unisex accessible loo which is there for the needs of a very wide range if accessibility needs, not all of which are physical needs and they are not just for people with mobility issues.

Sex and gender are two different things. Gender is controlled by the individual. Sex cannot be changed and for this individual will always be male. There is no hormone level, surgical procedure or official document that can change that. Making peace with that, whilst also living as liberated from the chains of gender and expressing femininity in clothes, hair, mannerisms, name etc, is the combination that will be healthiest and lead to the greatest achievable contentment

Ok, thanks. I thought this may be the case but wanted to be sure. I’m not sure they know this however so I want to help get them to a place where finding this out in the real world doesn’t set them back massively from a mental health POV. It’s all such a shame, I fear all the focus on trans has prevented necessary work being done on other underlying issues.

If in the UK then no, he can't. He remains a man for all legal purposes, regardless of passport, driving licence, GRC.... The whole point of the FWS Supreme Court case was to decide whether transpeople with a GRC should be treated as the opposite sex in respect of targets for gender representation on public boards in Scotland. The conclusion was that no, they shouldn't, and "woman" in law describes biological women only, not men who want to be women. Self-ID was never the law in this country, and the Supreme Court case affirmed that a GRC did not change the meaning of "woman" either.

The ruling extends beyond board representation, and applies to toilets, changing rooms, sports, jobs advertised as women-only, and numerous other things. The fact that some transwomen ignore the law and use women's provision anyway doesn't change this.

I do genuinely sympathise, but you aren't responsible for bringing this person through this situation. It's your friend's child and your role is mainly limited to supporting your friend while she supports her child. Both you and your friend need to have a solid understanding that compassion and support do not require believing the fantasies of someone who isn't mentally stable. You can be grounded in factual reality whilst still helping someone who desperately wants you to believe something that isn't true. A life spend hiding from the real world will not be happy.

Under the Equality Act everyone has the right to equal treatment and with the protected characteristic of Gender Reassignment this young person has legal protection from every kind of illegal discrimination. A fundamental principle under the act is that generally the default is that all services and opportunities are open to everyone so the vast majority of things have no barriers to them. Where there is a legitimate reason for something to be single-sex, that's allowed, and males who identify as women do not get access to female single-sex things because their sex is still male. If they aren't rational enough to accept that then they aren't ready to leave the house yet.

"Sex and gender are two different things. Gender is controlled by the individual. Sex cannot be changed and for this individual will always be male."

This is why it's particularly daft to change things like sex on documents such as passports, because passports record the holder's the sex not the holder's gender (identity).

Well yes it's daft, but unless the government passes legislation to require all passports henceforth to be an accurate statement of sex (which I don't think they will) the fact is that passports with fictional untrue information have been issued, therefore a passport is not a reliable or meaningful document to prove or disprove what sex someone is.

No regardless of what his passport says, he's still a male, so he can't enter female only spaces.
When the politicians allowed the sex category on passports to be changed to anything the person wanted they rendered the document useless for verification purposes. Just like birth certificates, driving licences and all the other documents that could once be relied upon for ID, all meaningless now.
Beyond me why he would want to change his passport considering how devalued the information on is, if he needs a bit of paper to prop up his delusions he's knows what he's telling himself is not true, so nothing will be enough.

Yes, I think this is true in many cases.

I’ve been out for coffee this am. I noticed that as well as the existing traditional loos, through one door then divided into men’s and women’s, there was a separate door with a sign saying ‘gender neutral toilet’. There is also one like that at the leisure centre where I swim. I’m a woman, I occasionally use it if I can’t be bothered going through the changing rooms to the Ladies. Let’s hope more of these start being available.

Cautious agree - but what's behind that door and what did it used to be? If they have put a gender neutral label on a room that contains just cubicles and shared sinks, and was previously a women's loo, then (a) that isn't compliant with building regs which requires unisex loos to have floor to ceiling enclosure and individual hand-wash facilities in each unit and (b) this action has reduced the provision for women - that's a detriment that could certainly be considered discriminatory if getting to a single sex loo is now a right pain.

But if it wasn't made that way then it's great! It's important for there to be some unisex facilities everywhere.

No cubicles, and separate from the ones marked for women and men. Both the ones I mentioned are one toilet and handbasin in a single, lockable room, just as you describe they need to be.

This young man may find travelling a bit of a shock if he gets outside the Anglosphere with his passport. There are many countries where they won't hide their incredulity when faced with an obvious male in possession of a female passport. They may find it highly suspicious, too, and might not be very kind about it.

I am glad you asked this question. There may be people reading this who did not realise you can change the sex on a passport by doing nothing. You don't need to obtain a Gender Recognition Certificate, even.

And I agree, this is probably going to mean he gets a lot more attention at border control, and that will not be pleasant if he is having mental health problems.

I hope he doesn't expect a woman to pat him down if he gets searched?

Under the Equality Act he is entitled not to be discriminated against, compared to other men. That means, if other men, who don't 'identify' as trans aren't allowed to go somewhere, do a job, or take part in a sport set aside for women, nor is he. Sorry if he's been misled about that.

I don’t want to derail this conversation but what was his thinking about changing his passport sex if he still looks like a man? This will presumably cause all sorts of problems at the borders in countries which have not had the same level of trans awareness raising that the U.K. has? Why add complications to the already stressful experience of foreign travel?

TBH very few men don't still look like a man, even when making an effort.