Human beings should be more like clownfish.

[theilltemperedmonster]

Clownfish are protandrous sequential hermaphrodites. They live in groups containing a breeding female and male, and one or more non-breeding individuals. If the female is lost, the male becomes female, and one of the non-breeders becomes male (as also happens if the male is lost).

It's important that the sex change MtF happens only after the male has sexually matured and reproduced. I propose that we move to this model for human transsexualism.

Medical transition in immature subjects has multiple insuperable disadvantages

Puberty blockers, hormone blockers, and cross-sex hormones have serious side effects.

Treatments intended to prevent normal puberty also prevent normal maturation of non-reproductive body parts.

Preventing normal puberty makes it impossible to know whether it would have reversed or attenuated gender incongruence.

Early male transition can cause sterility with no option of fertility-sparing measures such as freezing sperm.

Early male transition can cause sexual dysfunction because it prevents normal development of engorgeable tissue: this also makes vaginoplasty more difficult, with a higher risk of sequelae affecting excretory functions.

Testosterone blockade makes boys unusually tall and testosterone makes girls unusually short.

My proposal

The NHS should redeploy its resources to adult-only medical transition and CAMHS.

Medical transition of physically immature subjects should be banned on ethical grounds.

The societal model should become one of sequential hermaphroditism, in which individuals have their family, and/or take fertility-sparing action such as freezing sperm, eggs, embryos or tissue, before moving to the next phase of life in their acquired ('opposite sex') gender.

Gender incongruent children under CAMHS should inter alia be given detailed information about what adult medical transition will entail, the risks and side effects, the limits on what can be achieved in terms of imitating the appearance of the other sex, and the steps they will be able to take to preserve fertility (not to put them off, but to make sure they are really well-prepared).

Advantages

Reduced side-effects and preservation of fertility and sexual function.

Higher rates of desistence and lower incidence of regret.

The purely medical benefits are particularly notable for females, because of the powerful effects of testosterone. This means unpleasant side effects – which will at least be deferred by a few years – but also means that transition is very effective (in terms of altering superficial appearance) even in mature individuals.

Psychological benefit: gender incongruent adolescents will feel that they are on the right pathway, that there is a plan, light at the end of the tunnel, and so forth, instead of being held in a massive queue and buffeted back and forth by political and medical arguments going on over their heads. And the ones that just want to feel special can bore everyone with their detailed life plan including sperm freezing, and maybe wear a Nemo badge.

Disadvantages

There's a big one. The very thing that enables a boy to develop normal sexual and reproductive function is also the thing that gives him a male appearance, physique, and behavioural traits. There is no way around this. It cannot be ethical to give feminising treatment to someone too immature to have any grasp of the value of what he is losing. The only option is to put more effort into cosmetic techniques such as FFS – and maybe the private sector can play a role here.

TL;DR Clownfish are amazing.

Slightly concerned that some TiM would read this as a requirement to eliminate a few women in order to transition. A fair few of their social media posts and placards suggest they’d be up for this.

Although waiting until adulthood before making irreversible life changing decisions including sacrificing fertility makes absolute sense, the major downside is something you haven't mentioned: the children of the transitioning adults are redshirts in the narrative and psychologically collateral damage.

The NHS should redeploy its resources to adult-only medical transition and CAMHS.
Medical transition of physically immature subjects should be banned on ethical grounds.

Can I correct that for you:

• The NHS should redeploy its resources to adult-only CAMHS for this issue.
• Medical transition should be banned on ethical grounds - and because it is not possible.

Transition can not happen - the sooner we start dealing with it from a mental health perspective and stop doing anything from a medical / hormonal / surgical perspective the better.

P.S. humans are not fish (of any type!)

Well, I did have a few thoughts about precautionary X23 cloning and brain transplants, but it all got a bit 'Never Let Me Go'........

Clownfish fathers guard and clean the nest, but if you don't remove them from the tank they eat the young when they hatch.

Good point (I had to Google redshirts). Obviously, my proposal is somewhat tongue in cheek, but I would also hope for a high rate of desistence.

Ok, first of all, I think the only part of that post that I fully understood was

And the ones that just want to feel special can bore everyone with their detailed life plan including sperm freezing, and maybe wear a Nemo badge.

But I can see the extensively thought-out logic that's gone into it, so...

....sure? 😟🐠

(Where's igneo when you need her.)

Except, there's this. 😧

I don't think it's going to be politically feasible at the moment to ban medical 'transitioning' of adults altogether, even in the private sector, because 'freedom'. But comparatively few adult 'trans' people take medical steps, so if we can stop adolescents from harming themselves until adulthood, a large part of the danger will then have passed.

How does that work on a coral reef? Do the hatchlings pop off to an adjacent anemone before dad has the chance to eat them?

The hatchlings drift out into the open ocean as soon as they hatch. Unlike in the Nemo films the father's parenting behaviour only applies to the eggs and nest and ends the moment they hatch - the father doesn't recognise the hatchlings.

Did someone say ‘clownfish’?

People are not clownfish.

Or bats

and girls, just train harder!!

I notice that all of your arguments are centering trans identifying males what about the consequences of transitioning pubesant trans identifying females?

Also humans arent and never can be any type of fish.

There is no such thing as a human hermaphrodite, and before you bring up DSDs they are all either male or female and only have ovaries or testicals never bothnor do they have both sets of genitalia

The NHS should not be transitioning anyone. All medical transition is physically harmful to adults and children. As with all other elective cosmetic surgery and procedures they should be paid for by those who want them, I would however ban them for everyone under 25 (when the brain has fully matured) and ban them for everyone who has mental health issues.

fair points - also better to focus on banning child medical stuff as that has huge ethical issues - to an extent adults make their own choices - though, if those choices come from mental health issues, it is perhaps debatable as to whether they are always in a good place to make those choices...

....after a lifetime studying fish, the biologist Stephen Jay Gould concluded that there was no such thing as a fish. He reasoned that although there are many sea creatures, most of them are not closely related to each other. For example, a salmon is more closely related to a camel than it is to a hagfish. This fact appears in the first paragraph of the Oxford Encyclopedia of Underwater Life.

So who is to say we are not fish? Either everything is fish, or nothing is fish.

(I feel hungry now)

Yes, I'm inclined to agree with this from @Hoardasurass

As with all other elective cosmetic surgery and procedures they should be paid for by those who want them, I would however ban them for everyone under 25 (when the brain has fully matured) and ban them for everyone who has mental health issues.

It's interesting that judging by the recently reported Finnish study, the Finns are much less likely to give so called gender affirming care to subjects with existing high rates of psychiatric morbidity than to those with psychiatric morbidity rates more in line with background population.

It seems perfectly reasonable to adopt this protocol for anyone who can breathe (unaided) underwater.

I'd suggest we follow clownfish even more closely, and just leave it to nature.

Neil Subin wrote a brilliant book called Your Inner Fish - A fascinating exploration of how our bodies evolved from ancient fish, worms, and bacteria, tracing the origins of human anatomy through fossils and DNA.

Humans left their fish years behind them eons ago, maybe some day some alien scientist will write a book called Your Inner Clown - A fascinating exploration on how humans lost the plot, de-evolved into clowns, rejected reality, denied science and everyone died. The End. 😂

For example, a salmon is more closely related to a camel than it is to a hagfish.

Now, wait just a minute! That's... that's transfishia! I mean fishphobia. I mean, ... what? Camels? 😯

Your Inner Clown - A fascinating exploration on how humans lost the plot, de-evolved into clowns, rejected reality, denied science and everyone died. The End.

And we have a winner, ladies and germs! Best post today!!

I wouldn’t spend a penny of NHS money on “adult transition” personally. The coffers are not exactly bursting. Counselling/MH support is all that should be provided on the NHS. They can pay for anything else themselves like cross sex hormones or cosmetic surgery as pp have said.

No, orange doesn't suit me.

Does the NHS normally pay for unnecessary cosmetic surgery, for anyone? I didn't think they did, but could be wrong.

People I know who've had surgery got it done privately, but they get hormones from the GP (I assume that part is cheap).