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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Human beings should be more like clownfish.

32 replies

theilltemperedmonster · 30/07/2026 17:32

Clownfish are protandrous sequential hermaphrodites. They live in groups containing a breeding female and male, and one or more non-breeding individuals. If the female is lost, the male becomes female, and one of the non-breeders becomes male (as also happens if the male is lost).

It's important that the sex change MtF happens only after the male has sexually matured and reproduced. I propose that we move to this model for human transsexualism.

Medical transition in immature subjects has multiple insuperable disadvantages

Puberty blockers, hormone blockers, and cross-sex hormones have serious side effects.

Treatments intended to prevent normal puberty also prevent normal maturation of non-reproductive body parts.

Preventing normal puberty makes it impossible to know whether it would have reversed or attenuated gender incongruence.

Early male transition can cause sterility with no option of fertility-sparing measures such as freezing sperm.

Early male transition can cause sexual dysfunction because it prevents normal development of engorgeable tissue: this also makes vaginoplasty more difficult, with a higher risk of sequelae affecting excretory functions.

Testosterone blockade makes boys unusually tall and testosterone makes girls unusually short.

My proposal

The NHS should redeploy its resources to adult-only medical transition and CAMHS.

Medical transition of physically immature subjects should be banned on ethical grounds.

The societal model should become one of sequential hermaphroditism, in which individuals have their family, and/or take fertility-sparing action such as freezing sperm, eggs, embryos or tissue, before moving to the next phase of life in their acquired ('opposite sex') gender.

Gender incongruent children under CAMHS should inter alia be given detailed information about what adult medical transition will entail, the risks and side effects, the limits on what can be achieved in terms of imitating the appearance of the other sex, and the steps they will be able to take to preserve fertility (not to put them off, but to make sure they are really well-prepared).

Advantages

Reduced side-effects and preservation of fertility and sexual function.

Higher rates of desistence and lower incidence of regret.

The purely medical benefits are particularly notable for females, because of the powerful effects of testosterone. This means unpleasant side effects – which will at least be deferred by a few years – but also means that transition is very effective (in terms of altering superficial appearance) even in mature individuals.

Psychological benefit: gender incongruent adolescents will feel that they are on the right pathway, that there is a plan, light at the end of the tunnel, and so forth, instead of being held in a massive queue and buffeted back and forth by political and medical arguments going on over their heads. And the ones that just want to feel special can bore everyone with their detailed life plan including sperm freezing, and maybe wear a Nemo badge.

Disadvantages

There's a big one. The very thing that enables a boy to develop normal sexual and reproductive function is also the thing that gives him a male appearance, physique, and behavioural traits. There is no way around this. It cannot be ethical to give feminising treatment to someone too immature to have any grasp of the value of what he is losing. The only option is to put more effort into cosmetic techniques such as FFS – and maybe the private sector can play a role here.

TL;DR Clownfish are amazing.

OP posts:
BiologicalRobot · 30/07/2026 20:38

But I don't want to be a fish, clown or any other. I wanna be a cat.

Edit.
Good grief that's a large image

Cat Meme GIF
slughater · 30/07/2026 20:57

I like your style @theilltemperedmonster

as an aside I was disappointed that Chris Packham name checked the clownfish in his otherwise excellent Evolution episode about the ostrich (actually about the development of sexual reproduction and it's evolutionary advantages)

of course we know clownfish exist but every time they get a mention, even an accurate one, it lends weight to the crazy over reach the TRAs love. He mentioned sea horses too 😟

theilltemperedmonster · 30/07/2026 21:48

I started the thread because I was thinking about tomorrow's judgment and ruminating about what a bad idea transitioning minors is. But I do think clownfish have something to teach trans people, because they are very different (and not just because clownfish really can change sex).

A clownfish lives a productive life as a male, then as a female. It's all part of life's rich tapestry. He doesn't sit around whining about how he was always really female, and the whole of his pre-transition life was a waste of time and must be rewritten or erased. Trans people should be more like that!

If transitioning minors is banned (🤞🤞🤞) then young people will have to go back to actually living their lives, instead of frittering them away wishing for the unattainable.

OP posts:
Hoardasurass · 31/07/2026 00:00

theilltemperedmonster · 30/07/2026 18:48

....after a lifetime studying fish, the biologist Stephen Jay Gould concluded that there was no such thing as a fish. He reasoned that although there are many sea creatures, most of them are not closely related to each other. For example, a salmon is more closely related to a camel than it is to a hagfish. This fact appears in the first paragraph of the Oxford Encyclopedia of Underwater Life.

So who is to say we are not fish? Either everything is fish, or nothing is fish.

(I feel hungry now)

So your honestly saying that a mamal and a fish have more in common than two types of fish? Really? I mean im not camal or fish expert but I would have thought that the two fish with gills and scales would have more in common genetically speaking than the air breathing fury mamal does with either of the fish

ErrolTheDragon · 31/07/2026 00:56

Hoardasurass · 31/07/2026 00:00

So your honestly saying that a mamal and a fish have more in common than two types of fish? Really? I mean im not camal or fish expert but I would have thought that the two fish with gills and scales would have more in common genetically speaking than the air breathing fury mamal does with either of the fish

just the sort of question which intrigues at this time of dayGrin - seems as though despite the apparent greater similarity in morphology between hagfish and salmon, the latter really is genetically more similar to a camel (or human, for that matter).

In brief, the split between jawless vertebrates such as hagfish and lampreys and jawed vertebrates (most other fish and all amphibians, reptiles, birds and mammals happened 500 million years ago. The jawed branch underwent different changes to the unjawed branch. But the fish in each branch retained ancestral traits which make them appear similar.

(I used perplexity.ai with these questions:
did Stephen Jay Gould say that a salmon is more closely related to a camel than it is to a hagfish and if so is this true?

and then
In terms of functional genes and phenotype rather than last common ancestor would the claim hold true?

ErrolTheDragon · 31/07/2026 01:12

And having also now looked at what exactly hagfish are, they actually don’t have scales, or fins.

RogueFemale · 31/07/2026 01:19

@theilltemperedmonster If transitioning minors is banned (🤞🤞🤞) then young people will have to go back to actually living their lives, instead of frittering them away wishing for the unattainable.

It'll be fine, they'll just look at their phones. And do a TikTok challenge.

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