UK radical feminists; what to do?

[RealRoseCritic]

So there was a question earlier today in one of my groups about TERFs in the UK, why are they so strong there, etc. Let me elaborate on something.

There is something special in mainstream British feminism that is quite different from European feminism(s), but since the English speaking internet concerns mostly the Anglosphere and not Europe, due to us having separate, isolated debates in each country/language, you won't likely ever hear how the UK is substantially different.
It is important to understand the logic of British feminism. Unlike European feminism, which is mostly inclusive and focused on stuff like equal pay, care, safe design of public space and general equity, in the UK it was always about "separate but equal".

British centres of power were always men-only, and many British feminists didn't react the way European women did (aka pushed their way into male spaces, so that these became co-ed spaces), but created their own, separate spaces, which they then aggressively policed the same way British men did with theirs. Add some Victorian prudishness and bioessentialism, that was abandoned in Europe after WWII for obvious reasons, but not in the UK, and voilà, here come British second-wave radfems and the TERFs.

I am from the Czech Republic where I currently live; I lived in Norway, Poland and the Netherlands, I speak fluently multiple European languages and understand few others; I don't say that to brag, but to show my ability to do the comparative analysis, since I study the topic closely.

Out of EU member states, only in Bulgaria and Hungary are trans rights worse than in the UK at the moment, with Hungary being expected to get substantially better soon, and in neither of those two countries are trans people, and especially trans women, as demonised as in the UK.

In all EU member states transphobia comes exclusively from far right places; it is unheard of that liberals or anyone non-far right would say what is absolutely the mainstream in the UK, including Hungary and Bulgaria.
If you are saying the stuff JKR is saying, you are 100 % aligned with far right politics.

We had an attempt by a group of our far right senators to enact a bill proposal similar to what is in the UK, but the proposal was killed within a week before it could have been even voted upon in the Chamber of Deputies. Just for instance.
Scandinavian feminism is focused mostly on fair share of care and chores, German feminism focuses mostly on equal pay, Kita for everyone and the like, Polish feminism is mostly about access to abortion, Czech feminism is mostly about equal pay and safety from domestic violence - I could go on, but all in all, men are welcome to participate and the goal is to create equity for everyone, regardless of their gender. Together.
We don't get British obsession with separate spaces for women, women here are absolutely fine with the way things are, mostly because cultures in the Continent are far less prudish and overall we treat men and women as one people rather than different species.

Moreover, because of civil law rather than common law, we have different approach to legal texts and their interpretations; this makes it different too.
Not just regarding trans rights, but also regarding women's rights, I am often amazed by how much backward the UK is in so many ways compared to the EU (again, including places like Hungary, this needs to be stressed). I often see women in English-speaking debates saying things like "ugh, men" on things that actually concern problems that are specifically British and that stem mostly from both societies' tendency to separate already boys from girls, treating them differently and sexualising women in contexts we don't really see as sexual at all.

We can't really get this across the Channel, because we just don't have the power to do so. For instance Czech debate on feminism is quite isolated; it's interesting, but no more than 15 million people would ever be able to participate in it (CZ/SK) due to the language barrier, the same goes for Scandinavia (17 million), Benelux (28 million), Poland (38 million), or even DACH (95 million). It is nothing compared to half a billion people of the US, UK, CA, AU, NZ and IE that are giving tone to the worldwide debate in English.

So, if you are a British trans woman, you would do yourself a great favour if you moved to mainland Europe. You will be welcomed and cherished (for the most part).

FFS it was a joke!

It's not just about toilets OP. Do our European sisters not care about fairness in sport and other competitions, or sex segregation in prisons or shelters? Surely they must.

Oh I got you quoted a misogynist as a joke! Was your entire post meant to be satire?

No, just funny.

The humour coming from the leap between "Men can't fully understand the female experience" to "Men can have no insights of value to offer Feminists".

I assume you think the former rather than the latter. If you do think the latter, I deeply deeply disagree with you.

Some men look great in them (slim hips..)

Ditto kilts (need decent legs)

But neither item functions as an implicit claim to be women.

This I like!

I'm quite ready to see people dressing the way they want to, especially when the weather becomes exceedingly hot. It's entirely possible for men to wear some unconventional clothing, and to do it because that's what they want to wear and not in order to pretend to be a woman. I think it would be possible to tell the difference in motivation most of the time, though it's not something one gets challenged to do very often.

My simple rule of thumb is - if the dress is altered so you don't need tits to fill it he's probably a bloke who wants more variety in men's clothing choices. It technically being "woman's" clothing is beside the point.

If he's padded the tits (or has fake tits) to fill the dress he's wearing it because he has some sort of desire to dress "as a woman". It being "woman's" clothing is the whole point.

What a word salad OP

Like Chat gpt vomited on the OP

Yes! As an Australian woman, I can vouch for this. Lots of gender critical men as well. A recent survey of parents showed 82% did not agree with Gender Ideology being taught in school. However our institutions are thoroughly captured, and the ABC is where your BBC was a couple of years ago. Kids have been taught in school that sad boys need to be accepted as girls and sad girls can fix all their problems by being boys. Labour and the Greens expel people with GC voices, is a bit of a shit show, but shifting as people begin to realise. It doesn't help that GC women are losing in court for speaking the truth, and being fined the equivalent of the average annual wage. Those of us who are GC love and aspire to your UK Terfery. Keep at it!

Please. If you can't see why attacking trans people for everything they do (appearing on TV, accessing care, wearing clothes, taking selfies) isn't leftist, and is welcomed by the far right, then you're incredibly blinkered.

The far right have been busy inventing myths about trans (and intersex) people, and far too many GC women believe them.

It is not leftist or feminist to call a young brown Muslim woman a man who likes punching women. I saw so many GCs quote Reduxx in defence of them doing this.

It isn't leftist to claim that trans women taking photos of themselves in short skirts is "womanface" or evidence of perversion.

It isn't leftist to make horrific comments about the breasts, genitalia or reproductive systems of trans men. Or to invent ableist conspiracy theories about autism, mental illness and physical disability.

It's not leftist to mock trans people's appearance, object when they have jobs, or claim that they're fetishists.

It's not leftist to treat individuals from a minority as representative of the whole.

It's not leftist to deny minority people their individuality, full stop. Or question why they exist, or where they came from - or to hope they will one day be gone.

And above all, it's not feminist to pretend that there's a "social contract" preventing violent cis men attacking us wherever they want in public spaces. Or to pretend that anything other than strength in numbers prevents women being assaulted in so-called 'safe spaces'.

Blaming trans women for cis male violence plays into the hands of the far right. Transphobia is a protection racket which forces gender conformity on cis women while doing absolutely nothing for our safety.

We need better consent teaching. Proper rape justice. An addressing of rape culture. And we get: toilet vigilantism, with a warning not to look too male or we'll be hurt too. What a surprise.

Please. If you can't see why attacking trans people for everything they do (appearing on TV, accessing care, wearing clothes, taking selfies) isn't leftist, and is welcomed by the far right, then you're incredibly blinkered.

The far right have been busy inventing myths about trans (and intersex) people, and far too many GC women believe them.

It is not leftist or feminist to call a young brown Muslim woman a man who likes punching women. I saw so many GCs quote Reduxx in defence of them doing this.

It isn't leftist to claim that trans women taking photos of themselves in short skirts is "womanface" or evidence of perversion.

It isn't leftist to make horrific comments about the breasts, genitalia or reproductive systems of trans men. Or to invent ableist conspiracy theories about autism, mental illness and physical disability.

It's not leftist to mock trans people's appearance, object when they have jobs, or claim that they're fetishists.

It's not leftist to treat individuals from a minority as representative of the whole.

It's not leftist to deny minority people their individuality, full stop. Or question why they exist, or where they came from - or to hope they will one day be gone.

And above all, it's not feminist to pretend that there's a "social contract" preventing violent cis men attacking us wherever they want in public spaces. Or to pretend that anything other than strength in numbers prevents women being assaulted in so-called 'safe spaces'.

Blaming trans women for cis male violence plays into the hands of the far right. Transphobia is a protection racket which forces gender conformity on cis women while doing absolutely nothing for our safety.

We need better consent teaching. Proper rape justice. An addressing of rape culture. And we get: toilet vigilantism, with a warning not to look too male or we'll be hurt too. What a surprise.

Oh is this the thread where we just shout unevidenced assertions as if that is enough to give them the same authority as facts?

The colour pink is really a shade of grey!

57% of Polynesians have the middle name Eagle!

Women who don't believe being a woman is a matter of ones state of mind are transphobic bigots!

Toes don't exist!

So in a nutshell you get to decide that someone is not a left leaning person, or is not a feminist because they do not agree with you and your ilk.

righty ho!!!

I am as left wing as can be found.

oh and the brown Muslim boxer is a man with a DSD.

A Muslim woman from his particular culture would never be hoisted up to sit upon the shoulders of a male, in his victory parade.

I do wonder how some of these people come up with their posts. Or more why do they come up with those posts?

It's just ranting jibber jabber, but somehow also quite specific.

Bizarre.

It's single sex spaces @TransParentlyAnnoyed

Not safe spaces. This has been pointed out to you before. Try and keep up.

Funnily enough i was wondering when, your short, straight to the point, no nonsense post would arrive 😍

Someone's not a happy bunny tonight.

Oh well, never mind.

Fucking hell @TransParentlyAnnoyed, are you STILL banging on about Khelif being a woman. You must be the only person left in the world who believes that tripe.

Holy fuck it’s raining outside. <Rushes out to get wet>.

Such a pity OP's abandoned their thread, as I remain ever-curious about this:

Scandinavian feminism is focused mostly on fair share of care and chores, German feminism focuses mostly on equal pay, Kita for everyone and the like, Polish feminism is mostly about access to abortion, Czech feminism is mostly about equal pay and safety from domestic violence

How do these more enlightened, progressive feminists define & identify the women being tasked with most of the chores and not getting abortions? Which women aren't being paid equally, and equally to whom? You're suggesting they have no appropriate language to classify the groups, surely. When arguing for safety in a domestic setting, can they name the characteristic most often associated with abusers?

It's a massive logic fail. Can't deal with sexism if you won't acknowledge sex.
Thus, you can't do feminism.

@GarlicAnywhere good point well made out

We absolutely need better consent teaching. We need your male friends to understand that the majority of women and girls don’t consent to their presence in our spaces, and we need you to understand that other women can’t consent on our behalf.

I highly doubt Khelif does, for one.