Brave reporter undergoes inhumane sex test for sports. Brace yourselves.

[singthing]

Here's a blow-by-blow first-person account of what it is like to have the new sports sex test that is being decried as invasive and dehumanising and (in a rather extravagant bending of the facts) a genital inspection etc.

After such a big build-up, prepare to be.... underwhelmed. But please do stop scrolling now if you don't want to read the distressing details:

"I open my mouth and feel the swab brushing the inside of my cheeks for about 20 seconds. The practitioner carefully places the sample in a small plastic bag and then pops it into a sealed envelope. I sign the back of it."

https://archive.ph/kITV9

Actually you know, I say that but thinking about it - it also makes me sad when people (and especially women) who aren’t comfortable being weighed in public are also excluded from getting into competing in my sport. We do need the weight categories, and I don’t have the answer to that either 😭 it’s a very different issue of course but it also ends up being an inclusivity vs fairness thing, when I think about it!

I'm not a competitor, but I am a spectator and I have seen athletes like CS live. As a spectator I don't want to see cheats.

And it is well known, particularly in Africa that they scout children with DSD to go into sport because they can cheat the system.

I'll just drop this here:

Caster Semenya's personal best time for the 400 metres: 49.62s
Male best time for the 400 metres: 43.03s
Caster Semenya's personal best time for the 600 metres: 1:21.77
Male best time for the 400 metres:1:12.81
Caster Semenya's personal best time for the 800 metres: 1:54.25
Male best time for the 800 metres: 1:40.91
Caster Semenya's personal best time for the 1000 metres: 2:30.70
Male best time for the 1000 metres: 2:11.83
Caster Semenya's personal best time for the 1500 metres: 3:59.92
Male best time for the 1500 metres: 3:26.00

As a male competitor, he'd be mediocre. No wonder he elected to cheat by insisting (in spite of knowing otherwise) that he was a woman.

I have said very clearly that I think the people calling Castor Semenya a man for no reason than the fun of it are cruel - I haven’t wavered on that.

I don't call him he for the fun of it or to be cruel, I think ti's cruel to maintain a charade that he is a woman, I think it is cruel to women. This is board that centres women and, along with other women here, I will correctly sex him, he is male. Inferring that it's for the fun of being cruel is quite interesting, why do you do that?
I am not required to show him compassion, I'm not his mum and he'd have no idea if I did or no so that's neither here nor there. I do have compassion for the women he has displaced, that's where I place my concern, learning to hold the line about centring women has been quite life changing for me.

I hope it’s not a prejudiced view but my experience has been that it’s been me arguing one thing (not even particularly strongly! With admission of plenty of uncertainty!) and everyone else arguing the opposite. You must have noticed that? Sure sometimes people pop their head above the parapet and disagree, but they’re usually alone, right?

I have said very clearly that I think the people calling Castor Semenya a man for no reason than the fun of it are cruel - I haven’t wavered on that.

It's neither cruel nor "fun" to recognize and call out the truth when it needs to be recognized and called out. If you don't want other people to point out that CS is a man, stop calling him a woman, first.

Competitive sport isn't inclusive!

Are you saying that people on this board, in this discussion, are calling Semenya a man for no reason than the fun of it? Just to be clear.

You do know the punchline to the old joke, don't you:

"It's not my Johnny that's out of step, it's the whole damn' US army!"

Did you actually read my post? I was clearly using the words cruel and unnecessary sarcastically as it's clearly not. Should I have used quote marks to help comprehension?

Perry much every sporting body in the UK has been stone walled to the eyeballs

nearly all of them put on policies that says TWAW and that male DSD athletes are women with high testosterone

theyve been forced back (some very reluctantly) into making sport single sec but bluntly up tikl about 18 months ago anyone not going along with "TWAW and can compete in women's sports" would have been told they were a bigot and that if they don't like it they can leave

how do I know this? Because DH is heavily involved in a highly stonewalled sport and women that complained about men on women's teams were told they could forfeit matches if they didn't like it

She was born with a sex difference / intersex condition and she is recognised as female by the IAAF. That’s why I’m calling her a woman. She’s not competing so I do think continuing to call her a man is just bullying, really.

No he's the bully

he's bullied women for years and you have no compassion for those women at all

He told women who he beat to win an Olympic medal to ‘try harder’ next time.

He is a bully.

Strong woman is a seems a bit different - lots of different feds etc (because untested comps and performance enhancing drugs etc are allowed in some - it’s a bit more Wild West than other sports / sporting bodies that might be stonewall members etc I think!)

I do think continuing to call her a man is just bullying, really.

No; it's not bullying. I couldn't give a stuff what the IAAF says - I'm not beholden to them, and nor are you. By refering to CS as female, you're framing the discussion to suggest that he is a woman who was (unfairly) excluded from female sport.

What's disgraceful is that he ever competed as a woman or was allowed to compete, and that he took titles away from women. This needs to be repeated and understood widely.

These are just recycled arguments, the IAAF transitioned to World Athletics in 2019, don't deadname World Athletics.

They've never been happy with CS competing and the various legal cases have been around the restrictions they imposed on CS.

It depends on what you want.

Do you want people to allow misinformation to not be challenged?

do you want people to not challenge your opinion?

What do you expect from people on this board.

It's not possible to discuss the problems of men competing in women's sport if you are not allowed to say that those men are men

The outright ban on genetic males competing in women's events didn't come from intersex individuals, it came from the recent spate of fully biological men (with no DSD) competing in women's events. The situation got so ridiculous that they've implemented a full ban.

Calling Semenya a man has nothing to do with fun or cruelty; it it's a neutral fact.

Staying open-minded is admirable up to the point there is an objective answer based on evidence and reason. Staying neutral beyond that point is either stupidity (can't be helped), ignorance (can be remedied) or cowardice (a bit contemptible).

When important decisions or consequences flow from the point in question (especially if those consequences are for other people), staying neutral in the face of objective fact will actively do harm.

I think I’ve engaged in good faith, but you can’t help yourselves with the little deadname jibe there can you. This is why people come and engage on something like fairness in sport, and then leave with the impression that mumsnet is a transphobic bubble.

The name can change, and even the decision could change, but surely even them finding her a woman once suggests things are a bit more complex than she’s just definitely straightforwardly a man.

edit: meant to reply to your post @PaperWalkAndTalk

Indeed and we're very well that correctly sexing athletes makes it (rightly) very hard for anyone arguing that men should be in women's sports even if they are men with a DSD

that's why CS should be correctly sexed

I am very happy to be challenged but I’m just pointing out it’s ONLY me being challenged and that’s totally fine, but you must see it’s a bit of a bubble in here!!

Well you kept up the pretence of reasonableness long enough but bluntly you privilege men feelings over women's reality

maybe you should think about that