Brave reporter undergoes inhumane sex test for sports. Brace yourselves.

[singthing]

Here's a blow-by-blow first-person account of what it is like to have the new sports sex test that is being decried as invasive and dehumanising and (in a rather extravagant bending of the facts) a genital inspection etc.

After such a big build-up, prepare to be.... underwhelmed. But please do stop scrolling now if you don't want to read the distressing details:

"I open my mouth and feel the swab brushing the inside of my cheeks for about 20 seconds. The practitioner carefully places the sample in a small plastic bag and then pops it into a sealed envelope. I sign the back of it."

https://archive.ph/kITV9

Do you think the IAAF was wrong? Why do you think they decided she was legally female?

Something I've noticed before: "I must go now" and the person then posting on, often for more than an hour. In this case the announcement was at 18:37, and there was a post from the same person at 19:44 (and counting).

Reminds me of people who slam the door on the way out, then open it again to say "ander NOTHER thing...."

I don't know about anyone else here but my idea of 'fun' isn't calling a man a man. And I see that curious modern view of bullying coming from Deadlifter - that people you don't know and never will who are talking about your public achievements (or lack of) are 'bullying'. No, they - we - are not, but we do value the truth in this ridiculous narcissistic world and some of us are stubbornly hanging on to it.

When Semenya passed through the not-very-gentle hands of the Court of Arbitration in Sport we read about his condition as the court's findings are made public. He's male & has a male-specific condition. I'd recommend Deadlifter read it.

If somebody opined that the earth is flat and was told by a group of people that they are mistaken, is the group automatically a "bubble"?

It's strange I know a lot of real LGBT+ people who take part in self-deprecating humour, and would laugh at stuff like that.

Being offended on the behalf of someone else isn't going to cut it.

And gently, mumsnet is quite famously a bubble on gender issues! Like, you must all know that… it’s an INFAMOUS bubble!

We welcome challenges to our opinions - at least, I do. Those challenges have to be rational, evidenced, consistent, lawful, and stand up to challenges (as our opinions are and do.)

If you think the inability of any counter-argument to live up to these reasonable standards makes this a bubble, that's on you.

Any forum where people are allowed to express a full range of opinions will naturally agree with the majority of opinions on here; it's not a coincidence that this open forum largely falls on the GC side; it's inevitable. It's the sites where GC opinions are banned that are the bubbles.

Ha ha I genuinely SHOULD have gone - it’s hard in the midst of a lively discussion! I don’t think it’s fair to say it was like a door slam - I was very much like ‘sorry I have to go, thanks for engaging with me!’

I don’t think I have been like ‘and another thing’…. I’ve said I don’t know plenty of times!

"Legally female" is a construct. Who knows what criteria they used? And frankly, who cares? If a court said legally, day was night, the earth would not speed up it's revolution to make the court correct.

Sure. Nothing like the pattern at all.

No, really. Not even slightly.

(cough)

You have called women cruel for the fun of it, and now bullies and using jibes because they won't accept your definitions.

You haven't had any posts reported and removed and nobody here has told you that you must call CS a male, they have explained why they call him one.

This is the second time someone has suggested that not holding gender critical views is the same as being a flat earther. And then other people keep telling me how open people are to challenge in this definitely-not-a-bubble.

I really AM going to go now though. I enjoyed discussing fairness in women’s sports with some posters (including some people that strongly disagreed with me but that I am still able to recognise as incredibly thoughtful and well informed people!) but some of you have sort of made a pile on gang now and it’s not very fair or interesting to me now you’ve stopped talking about sport.

Report away! I’d be very surprised if I’ve broken any community guidelines.

Well that's just silly, of course I am not going to report you.

I agree. It is a neutral fact. It is accurate language.

I quite like the idea of being in an INFAMOUS bubble. <preens>

Well, that was a runaround.

In the mean time, what a simple, straightforward, comparatively non-intrusive test we have here to identify the eligibility of the vast, vast majority of athletes into the female category. Then further steps can be taken to determine the status of anyone where necessary.

This is the second time someone has suggested that not holding gender critical views is the same as being a flat earther. And then other people keep telling me how open people are to challenge in this definitely-not-a-bubble.

The idea that the earth is flat doesn't stand up to critical examination. The idea that men can become women by force of will also doesn't stand up to critical examination. If you think it does - the answer is to respond cogently and intelligently to the examination with which you're presented here, and convince us.

If you don't want your views to be compared to believing the earth is flat, convince us that you're right. There's a reason that we don't look down on round-earthers. Their views stand up to critique.

Thank you for your posts here. For all of the many disagreeing with you, it really only takes one person speaking with compassion about the trans community to remind me that there are still kind and accepting people out there. Though I don’t think MN will ever be my go-to place to find them 😂

I have a badge....

https://www.etsy.com/uk/listing/934874628/nasa-pin-not-flat-we-checked-enamel-pin

But you are the only one here posing points of view that is challenging the exclusion of male people from female sports events.

Why do you blame women for you being the only one who is here challenging? We usually have numerous posters challenging but it is school holidays.

You have doubled down that it is a bubble.

Let’s not forget that the majority of the UK population do not support male people being in female sports.

No. I think it points to a captured governance board and general idiocy.

I particularly had in mind the fact that Semenya is male.

I disagree that multiple people acknowledging that and informing you that that it is objectively the case that he is not female counts as either a bubble or a pile-on.

If you feel it is unfair that you are the only one making the case against, we perhaps we could assign someone to play on your team next time - I think many people on this board are well-versed enough in the counter arguments to be able to make them!

Enjoy your evening.

Please read the thread linked to the save women’s sports thread.

there are links to the papers about why males were considered female for sports. It is a philosophical discussion about human rights.

it is not based on biological material reality. It wasn’t in 1999 and it isn’t now.

Bit of a late response (sorry - been busy) but just to remind you that one of your first posts was an attempt to "educate" when you said:

"There are a lot of different types of DSD of course, but broadly it means they have a mix of male and female biological traits, meaning their chromosomes, hormones, or sex organs do not all match up as purely male or purely female…. it just isn’t as straightforward as someone is either male or female. I know you’d like to believe it’s super straightforward, but (sorry if this sounds rude) that’s your failure of understanding / curiosity / openness."

Hopefully your discussions with all the knowledgable, informed posters who focus on returning women's sport to women and girls have helped you to clarify some of your numerous misunderstandings (and dare I say it), your stated arrogance about the breadth of knowledge and experience that women have on here.

So to show compassion to the trans community you have to let biological males into women's sport?