Should access to mental health services depend on you saying pronouns?

[wanttoworkbut]

I think not...

I have been having a rough time of it lately and wanted to self refer to CBT. A chat bot greets me - fair enough, saves staff time taking down vital details.

But quite quickly you are asked for your gender, and not sex. Femail includes trans women, it says. OK, I could probably see why, if ones mental health difficulties related to have dysmorphia etc. But then you have to state pronouns, no option to say no or 'other' or skip question.

I've not continued, I can't face it. Therpay requires authenticity surely.

vitahealthgroup.co.uk/nhs-talking-therapies/newcastle/

No-one is asking you to call anyone else by their preferred pronouns, they're asking you want to be called. Why are you allowing this to prevent you from getting access to mental health support?

It speaks to the standard of help you might get once you get past the gatekeepers. If the resource you're trying to access starts off with lies, how much help is it going to be.
There are loads of videos on YouTube that might be of use OP, try watching some of them, they don't require you to jump through counterfactual hoops. They might be able to signpost you too help of the right sort.

@wanttoworkbut Was there an option for 'you'?

Why are you allowing this to prevent you from getting access to mental health support?

Perhaps because it calls into question the quality of the support?

Asking for pronouns suggests that pronouns imply something about identity and the imposition forces the choice of an identity.

Answering also requires the respondent to understand the question which many people won't.

As much as this might be helpful for some people, it is very unhelpful for others. It shouldn't be difficult to have an n/a option or allow the question to be skipped.

OP, I'm so sorry. I hope you're okay.

Of course you shouldn't be forced to chant a catechism to access help.

This is an NHS service and one's beliefs, including gender critical beliefs, should be just as respected as genderist beliefs.

You can make a complaint:

https://vitahealthgroup.co.uk/contact-us/

Just in the same way somebody who is an atheist shouldn't be required to chant Hail Mary to access support.

I'm not "allowing" anything, they should allow people to skip the question or indicate other. I think mental health support should be open to all, not just those who believe in gender.

Had this with talk therapy self referral by chatbot.

'What is your gender identity'
'Does it match your sex at birth'

It is an assumption of belief in gender ideology I don't have a gender identity and think it is a dangerous and harmful ideology.

There is no way to opt out of it.

There is no way to protest it

It is preventing people from using the services, it is a barrier that should not be there.

It is the same as insisting on a religion and not allowing 'no religion' as an option.

Did you not get an "I prefer not to say" option?

Exactly

Unbelievable

Ah interesting, it's become a standard thing then?

No. I am fine if other people want to express that stuff in a referral, I just happen to be female and realistic about it.

Have followed the link and and I'm having difficulty following the logic of the questionnaire.

It first asks for title and then preferred pronouns, with about 10 different options (but not 'don't want to say')

If somebody is choosing 'Mr', why would they then be choosing e.g. 'Zie' as a pronoun? If we think they are going to be that left field, why not just give them the option to fill in their own preferred pronouns?

The questionnaire asks whether the anonymised data can be used for research, and I wonder whether that is the point of the question?

@Whatisthisdamnednonsense

Not sure how to take your unbelievable but please try to use the chatbot yourself.

https://www.mktalkingtherapies.nhs.uk/self-referral

It does have 'I prefer not to answer', but not for the next question which is 'what is your pronouns' - there's no option for that.

I don't think those questions should be the first questions you are asked in this situation.

The rest of the NHS simply asks 'what was your sex at birth' - because that is what is important to know.

Ugh. I would be similarly frustrated.

The 'I prefer not to answer' does not really work for me.

I need a 'don't ask me this question again' option

I spat my dummy out with the local council a few years ago. I was probably ringing up about a missed bin collection and they wouldn't log the call until I told them whether I was a Miss or a Mrs. I explained that I don't use either, I just like being called by my first name. They said it wouldn't go on to the next screen without a title, so I said, "fine, it's Ms". That wasn't an option. So I said, "Ok, Mr". We ended up having a bit of a strong disagreement because she said I was being rude and ridiculous and I said that I wasn't defined by my marriage status and 'Mr' was as appropriate to me as any of the other options.

Sometimes you just come up against a line in the sand.

I've submitted something akin to the following on your behalf, OP.

'People with gender critical beliefs often do not wish to participate in sharing pronouns. This is part of their gender critical belief, and is protected under the Equality Act 2010.

Forcing someone to declare their pronouns could be discrimination.

There should be an option to decline to answer this question.

This could find you in a position of discriminating against someone wth gender critical beliefs. Perhaps more importantly, it has prevented someone from accessing healthcare.

The form should be updated to cater for those with gender critical beliefs, and/or people who do not wish to declare their pronouns. '

The NHS needs to serve everyone, including people with 'gc beliefs'. They are going to have to be taken through this process every fucking last step of the way, it seems. They've bent over backwards to cater for people with gender incongruent beliefs/views/feelings, they can fucking well give women who don't buy into gender the same respect.

I mean I didn't swear.

It also seems cruel to force somebody to declare pronouns if they are struggling with gender dysphoria.

Well done - direct action!
And yes to challenging the NHS every bloody time they come up with this nonsense.

Indeed. Depressingly, this point is more likely to have an impact than a woman complaining.

I wonder why.

If don't see how it raises questions about quality of support to be asked how you want others to refer to you.

It's it better to guess and use pronouns they don't want used?

You very definitely are allowing a point of principle to prevent you accessing what should be valuable mental health support.