Work Women's Network still open to everyone who identifies as a woman

[Polynerd]

I work for a large organisation that has various 'diversity groups' including lgbtq+, disability, ethnicity etc. One is the Women's Network, but when I click through to the group's page it says it is for anyone who identifies as a woman. Are they actually allowed to do this, given recent rulings/guidance? Should I flag to my employer? I'm pretty nervous to do so, sadly.

It is 100% anti trans, just fucking own it. You won’t be happy until they’re erased. I think you’ll be in luck, Reform are all over this

This is nonsense. Transmen are welcome in menopause groups, trans people of both sexes are welcome in LGBTQ groups. Trans people are welcome in mixed sex clubs and organisations - like Scouts, for example.

Most of us on FWR do know trans people, and many of us have trans-identifying relatives or colleagues. We welcome them into our lives in many ways.

What we can't and won't accept is male people in females spaces, organisations, competitions etc. Women are allowed to have boundaries.

GC women aren't pounding on the windows and behaving in threatening manners when trans people want to get together. We'd appreciate the same respect when we assemble, wherever that is.

Edited to add : that "Reform are all over it" nonsense doesn't fly. Reform also believe the earth goes around the sun and that gravity works. Having one point we agree on for completely different reasons does NOT make GC women right wing.

Maybe they could set up their own network. It's certainly not our responsibility.

It's an Association, and falls under the EA because of that. Yes, as it's a workplace association the employer is liable for any discrimination it might commit, but that changes nothing. A Women's group needs to be Women only if it calls itself a Women's group.

It depends on what organisation is for. The workplace women's networks I've been involved with have been to support women and their careers in the eorkplace. I work in IT, I am often literally the only woman in the room; we are definitely not 51% of any workplace population I've been part of.

There's no reason to keep men out if they claim to be supportive of women in the workplace, to try to understand what barriers there are for women in the workplace, and how they can support women they work with.

If your workplace women's organisation says it is for women only, then you would have a point, but I would be surprised if any has been set up with that as its exact aim, partly because HR don't want to set themselves up for easy discrimination cases.

People involved in a women's network in a workplace need only to have the common goal of being interested in supporting and developing women, recognising and working to combat inequality. I don't think experiencing periods/ a womb/ ovaries are necessary to be able to participate. This is work, not a medical appointment, no one needs to share intimate or personal information. So long as it's clear if the group is for women or about supporting women, people can choose to engage as they wish. It's up to the organiser/ facilitator to ensure no individual or view point dominates the discussion or makes others feel uncomfortable.

Nevertheless, a women's group at least implies that it's for women and various other posters on here have given strong reasons as to why women want and/or need their own group, exclusive of men. Are you saying that women don't have a right to this?

Most of this has been answered by others - women have a right to their own groups, it's not "anti-trans" to say or do that, especially as trans-ID women ARE included, etc. So I'll only respond to the last bit:

Reform are all over this...

Yeah, they are. And, as a long time lefty, I don't like that. But when one side pushes something as ludicrous and harmful as trans insanity, is it surprising that the other side - not just Reform, but the Tories too - will oppose it and make political capital out if it? And whose fault is that?

Left wing support of trans insanity is driving recruitment to Reform and the alt-right, far right, whatever they call themselves. You can't argue that women don't have any right to their own spaces, that children should be set on a path to irreversible hormonal and surgical mutilation, often without their parents' knowledge, that violent male sex offenders should be sent to women's prisons and all the other trans insanity that the left has adopted, without there being consequences. And whose fault is that?

Whether deliberately or not, you are completely misunderstanding the issue.

If you are going to include some men in such a group you might as well include all men.

If you are just including some men, why, and what is the purpose of the group?

If you don't think women need sex specific rights in the work place, my immediate impression is that it is you who are aligned with Reform.

I think any woman in her thirties is vulnerable to discrimination on the basis that she might become pregnant.

I'm not sure most work networks (certainly those I've been involved with) would qualify as an association. The EA definition is:

"An “association” is an association of persons—
(a)which has at least 25 members, and
(b)admission to membership of which is regulated by the association's rules and involves a process of selection."

The work networks I've known have been much looser than this and relied on mailing lists/Teams channels to publicise events, without any clear rules or a distinction between member and non-member.

I think it would be possible to set up a workplace network as an association as defined by the EA, and in that case of course the EA's definition of woman would apply if the association decided to limit its membership to women only. But I have never encountered a work network set up like this.

In practice, I'm not sure what you would do to prevent an organisation setting up such a network. The whole thing just seems a bit pointless because they don't seem to have a clear idea of what they are for.

I know this might be an alien concept on this board but they're for actual and practical feminism.
Why would you want to "prevent" other feminist groups being set-up?
Surely you can set-up a transphobic feminist group without needing to shut down any potential competition just to ensure membership?

I'm not suggesting that you would or could.

As I said, it's just all seems so vague that it seems pointless.

For example what do you mean by 'actual and practical feminism?'.

I think feminism means nothing if you can't define women and describe and analyse historical sex specific oppression and the rights that women require to participate equally in society. Do you disagree?

What do you think feminism is? Why would a group include some men but not others?

Surely you can set-up a transphobic feminist group

I wouldn't want to, but from what you say perhaps you do. Obviously all trans people have a sex and women who identify as trans also need feminism.

Do you mean a legal right to this? Do you believe they do have a legal right in this situation?

If the employer feels this is necessary / proportionate for the group to work then they could make a 'women only' network.

I don't think anyone can demand the employer makes a group like this 'women only' if the employer doesn't wish it to be. Presumably attending the network is voluntary and people can chose not to attend if it's not something they feel will be of benefit for them.

I think there are times it really matters for fairness/ safety etc but I don't feel this is one of them.

They're men. If they want to, they can set up their own network. They don't belong in the women's network.

How is this a problem for women to solve?

Automatically making it mixed sex and by default allowing any man to join. Transwomen are men, remember?

The DARVO is hilarious isn't it. All those TRA protests at woman-only support centres, conferences, refuges, and so on, DEFRA even now still being sued for allowing SEEN to even exist, and suddenly now it's all "hey, there's room for both of us to set up our own vision of a woman's group"? Yeah right.

I don't want to be a member of any group that only admits me on the basis of an assumption that what we've got in common is our fluffy pink ladybrain. It was bad enough to work abroad and have new members at the International Women's Association asking "sooooo... what does your husband do here?"

Same where I work. Pisses me off. Not having anything to do with it!