How trans people feel about correct-sex toilets, in their own words

[MyAmpleSheep]

This is an interesting Reddit thread where members of the trans community write about how they feel about not using wrong-sex bathrooms toilets facilities. (The original question doesn’t say toilets, but that’s how most responders have interpreted it, I think).

https://tinyurl.com/musmm897

There’s a mix of responses, some activist, some self-pitying, some stories that are sad. Genuinely useful and thought-provoking to read what people say.

I can’t very much influence how people should post here, but it would be very easy to only to highlight or mock the more unreasonable responses in that thread. Perhaps I’m allowed to ask Mumsnet posters to be thoughtful, though?

Toilets ?

is that all they want to talk about ?

and it’s not who scrubs them either I bet

Oh.

I gave it a go OP but had to give up at the first mention of gas chambers. I cannot take those hyperbolic ravings seriously.

I agree in trying to find solutions so that there are enough safe and hygienic toilets for everyone.

It frustrates me when people say that using the accessible toilet is demeaning. It is a wonderful resource that should be treated with respect, not derided. What does that say about the person’s attitude to others that need this toilet?

It also frustrates me that no one relates this to what can only be the end result - which is mixed sex toilets including ‘inclusive’ ‘gender-neutral’ ‘unisex’ designs. They are less safe and hygienic and not liked by most, even the ones that campaigned for them in the first place.

If EddieSu can hush the "girl mode" when there is a lucrative male role to audition for I'm sure he hush it for long enough to just pee.

For most of them it's not the toilets, it's the symbology of having to walk though the door of the sex they believe they are/should be/should be accepted as.

It's a shibboleth. And a fetish in the non-sexual sense. Something embedded with far more significance and meaning than what it actually is.

Makes me realise how some
men just don’t like being told “no”. Well, you wanted to be a woman, mate. Get used to not getting what you want.

I am not going to bother reading it because I am so sick of the hysteria from the trans community. I am sick of the death and rape threats, the loss of your livelihood if you dare to voice the fact (and legally protected belief) that a man in a dress is a man, the hyperbole that permeates every argument they try to put across, the misinformation, and the constant invasion of single sex spaces and the assault on women's rights by a group of men that are either deluded or have a sexual fetish over women's bodies. I am also sick to death of the debate centring around toilets. For the last fucking time, IT'S NOT ABOUT TOILETS!!!! It's about domestic violence refuges and rape centres and children in care homes and patients being allowed to choose intimate care being delivered by a person of the same sex. But they don't want to talk about that, because that makes THEM look unreasonable. Talk about toilets and WE look unreasonable. "I'm just trying to live my life!" I didn't think I could peak any further, but having watched a video of a white, middle class trustafarian claiming he was a spiritual lesbian at a Pride march, and a 'non-binary person' in the US trying to sue a department store over denying him entry into a women's toilet on the days were he felt feminine, I have gone completely over the peak and down into the valley. I don't fucking care anymore. Take out the mentally ill and the perverts in this group and you are left with a lot of men who simply need to be more special than anyone else and don't give a fuck who they trample over to get their daily affirmation. Fuck off.

And breathe......

Really? That's what you took from "over my dead body", "they may as well put me in a gas chamber", "fuck that", "the genocidal reality we're currently living in", "they can drag me to the gallows"?

Well, yes. It's thought provoking and useful to see that some people do indeed write (and allegedly think) things like that. The conclusions I draw are likely similar to yours. But it's helpful to see it laid out.

I know which thread you’re referring to and I’m afraid I just rolled my eyes at all of it, sad times and crass hyperbole about genocide alike.

Well, yes. It's thought provoking and useful to see that some people do indeed write (and allegedly think) things like that.

Where have you been? They've been talking like that for years. Misgendering is genocide. Stickers are literal violence. Christians are Nazi's. Women are fundamental right wing terrorists. Science is facist.

This sort of thing is one of the biggest problems with the trans movement imo. When they show such incredibly poor understanding of actual women's feelings, why should we believe them when they say they feel like women?

I've been here for a while, if not as long as some. Other new people turn up to read Mumsnet all the time. It doesn't hurt to put a stick in the sand.

Really telling that one of the comments says “I think it’s laughable that their rights should overrule ours.” So close to getting it!

The really telling one was the post about a TiM suffering serious abuse in the gents - the whole problem is that the wrong sex is being told to be kind.

exactly! There's nothing there that they haven't said for years. My well of sympathy ran dry yonks ago

I dont think anyone has ever been harassed by a trans person going for a pee. Youve probably even sat on the same toilet seat and bloody survived.

Do the people on mumsnet have nothing better to do than make nasty snid comments about trans people. They just want to live a quiet life and most are now scared to leave their home least of all go into a public toilet!

Don't forget the fascist baby.

Do trans people on Reddit have nothing better to do than make hyperbolic rants about genocide and threatening violence on women who simply want their legal rights observed

I'm sure you've popped over there to ask

First, I'm not any more interested about the feelings of men with gender identities than men with trans identities were in women's feelings when they invaded women's single sex spaces in full knowledge that many women didn't consent and weren't able to use mixed sex spaces.

Why are women supposed to care about these men, but accept that these men don't care about them?

#notyourmum.

Second, they don't have to use the spaces for their sex if they don't wish to. The guidance specifically requires respectful provision of mixed sex spaces for their convenience and expression of their gender identity.

This is far, far more than women were ever offered.

Im sure most of those comments were added by folk having a wind up. Nothing to actually say they are trans. There really is not a lot of trans people out there.

Ahhh... The "No True Trans" argument

Damn. You got there before me.

Ahh so the wants of very few trans should outweigh the needs of a fuck tonne of women?

Several court case ruled that allowing men into women's spaces amounts to harassment so they are harassing women.

Some also have to put up with the “far worse things in life” as you say, as well as this. Have you considered that?