How trans people feel about correct-sex toilets, in their own words

[MyAmpleSheep]

This is an interesting Reddit thread where members of the trans community write about how they feel about not using wrong-sex bathrooms toilets facilities. (The original question doesn’t say toilets, but that’s how most responders have interpreted it, I think).

https://tinyurl.com/musmm897

There’s a mix of responses, some activist, some self-pitying, some stories that are sad. Genuinely useful and thought-provoking to read what people say.

I can’t very much influence how people should post here, but it would be very easy to only to highlight or mock the more unreasonable responses in that thread. Perhaps I’m allowed to ask Mumsnet posters to be thoughtful, though?

Isn’t this effectively what Cass’s recent letter was asking the government to permit? She effectively argues that because young desperate children (and/or their families) will resort to black market and overseas sources for PBs, we should therefore allow those same, vulnerable and desperate YP to have it as part of a trial. A trial to explore safety levels that we know will show they are NOT safe when used for this condition for the length and purposes of GAC because studies already show this.

Yes. Drug abuse and child abuse. Approved and affirmed by the State.

This is not ok.

I read it as being even worse than that. I’m not sure that kids already taking these drugs are eligible for the trial so they need a fresh cohort to experiment on.

So my understanding is that because some kids are being harmed by activist adults, another 226 healthy kids are now going to be given this medication. I hope I’m wrong.

It’s horrifying. I cannot understand how the sensible, grounded, evidence orientated woman can have changed her position so markedly on this.

I guess she just pretended to be sensible, grounded and evidence orientated and fooled many people.

I’m gutted for those kids and the medical malpractice suits that could result will cost the NHS millions. Shame the people responsible won’t have personal liability.

I’ll show as much thoughtfulness and empathy as TRAs have shown to women over the years.
Which is none whatsoever.

Quite. You need the kind of microscope housed at CERN to be able to see my levels of sympathy.

Must admit I'd never thought of CERN as a microscope, but it is, I suppose (nanoscope? attoscope? seebackroscope?)

Precisely.

In my experience if a male plumber/cleaner is going to enter a female space, firstly there will be a sign up, and, they always knock on the door and shout to see if there are any women inside. If there are, they invariable wait until the women have finished and left the space. Or if he is already in there when I’ve gone to use the facility they have either propped the door open so you can see in, or they will be quite polite and ask if you mind waiting until they are finished.

Quite different to a bloke in a dress barging in for a wank just wanting to pee

You lot are utterly obsessed with transgender people. Seriously it’s time to get some hobbies or jobs, I will be ensuring they are safe with me to use the women’s and if any feminist identifying transphobe starts harassing her I will good her a good what for as they aren’t breaking any laws.

So you don't care about the providers of the spaces you will be using, whom you are going to land in hot legal waters?

See now, there ARE laws against:
Voyerism
sexual activity in toilets
sexual harassment
public indecency

So these men barging into women's legally protected spaces ARE doing something wrong

Bit aggressive there. Got a dog in the fight?

I think the correct course of action is to inform the landlord, or proprietor, who should ask the man to leave. If you kick off, they will probably ask you to leave too.

What are you going to do then?

Trans women are not men as affirmed by the UN and thousands of organisations, right wing Christian funded court cases are not world wide consensus. Nor was it based on scientific evidence. It was more like an opinion piece.

There is no men, however if a feminist identifying transphobe is kicking off and causing a fuss this is harassment and a public nuisance case and the police can be then rightfully called. There is no law to use a toilet in the UK.

Under the Public Order Act 1986, using threatening, abusive, or insulting words or behavior that causes harassment, alarm, or distress is an offense.

Sounds like you’re projecting as my comment hit a bit too close to home. Hope this helps.

Well in the UK, where single sex spaces are an issue they are men. Whatever you'd like to believe. So tough.

But we're not talking about something the UN may or may not have done and you may have misinterpreted. We're talking about the UK and UK laws. Specifically the 2010 Equality act but there are many other laws that feed into this.

I don't care about affirmation. I'm interested in biological reality. Especially the biological reality of being a fully embodied adult human female. You can keep your misinterpretations, metaphysical ideas about yourself and your identity OUT of women's spaces.

“Under the Public Order Act 1986, using threatening, abusive, or insulting words or behavior that causes harassment, alarm, or distress is an offense.”
if you harass trans people in toilets I will happily call the police as a cis woman.

Sounds like you’re going by a lot of pseudo science and a lot of misinformation. You could do with actually reading the law and educating yourself on the subjects.

I think you misunderstood my question. If a woman identifies a man in the women's toilet, the correct action is to inform the proprietor, landlord or service provider, who will tell the man to leave. If there's a security guard employed on the premises that task would probably be delegated to them. Otherwise a duty manager, or someone in a position of responsibility. Individual women should not be taking this on by themselves.

If you attempt to intervene or make a nuisance of yourself you will probably be asked to leave yourself also.

Would you kick off, and have yourself removed too?

"Sounds like you’re going by a lot of pseudo science and a lot of misinformation. You could do with actually reading the law and educating yourself on the subjects."

Oh dear... Is this a case of "Using insulting or abusive language" ?

It sounds like you’re having trouble reading the law. So I’ll be so kind as to produce it again.

Under the Public Order Act 1986, using threatening, abusive, or insulting words or behavior that causes harassment, alarm, or distress is an offense.

So would you like to harass trans women (no such words as men who identify as women) or would you like to obey the law? It’s really that simple.