'Arm the Dolls'

[WrongKindOfFeminist]

Pictured is Natacha Kennedy of Goldsmiths.

T shirt says 'Arm the Dolls'

Exactly. Such male behaviour.

The 'arm the dolls' slogan has more than a tinge of wishful thinking about it. Most of the 'dolls' seem to be completely obsessed with their belief that they 'pass' and I doubt that many of them are the slightest bit interested in going in to bat for the 'bricks', who they generally seem to look down on.

Are you suggesting I shouldn’t be allowed to change my name or dress a certain way in case someone assumes I’m a woman?

I’ve noticed no difference when I’m wearing jeans and jumper, or a dress. So maybe my clothes have nothing to do with it?

A man's jeans and jumper? I mean, there are jumpers and jumpers, aren't there. And presumably you're not wearing makeup or sporting a hairstyle more associated with women?

Of course, the fear amongst others will also play a part.

Nooo you said you present as female. As you say, there is no way for anyone to “present as female”. That very phrase confirms the person is not female. No female has to “present as female ” or change their documents. They just are female. I know done men are upset at this, but it is what it is. It’s the same as using “identify as”. Or “trans”. All these phrases do is confirm the person in question is not the thing they are claiming to be.

Am I not allowed to do any of those things as a male? I thought you were against stereotypes like men wear X and women wear Y?

I see it with a lot of the TIM on here. Have you noticed they all claim to pass completely and no one knows they’re male. It’s like maaaate. Seriously. We know.

Yes, somehow it's logical to want to mash the people you want to become.

But the other side of it is: those people, the ones you want to be, when do you ever see them strolling around in groups and threatening bodily harm?

They don't do that, and you want to be them, so ... how does all of what you're doing fit with your (presumably) main project?

No, you said that you noticed no difference if you wore jeans and a jumper. Unless you're wearing jeans and a jumper of the sort normally worn by men, you're dressing in a way that is more associated with women. That's why you won't notice the difference and that's why other people will react inn the same way. You're well aware of this.

If a male person is using stereotypical female attributes for his identity and then passively does nothing to alert people to an error in using female language for him, the responsibility of that resulting confusion does need to be accepted even just in part by the male person who doesn’t alert people to their error. Unless the entire reason for adopting those stereotypical attributes is to be considered as if they were female (and again, to be clear that includes any passive demand too).

It is dishonest to adopt female stereotypical attributes while not correcting people making errors in identification of sex class and then not take ownership of that cause for confusion.

"presenting as" is a fiction, a lie. Anyone who has to lie to themself to be happy isn't in a good place.

It must be very tiring spending your whole life lying. Hence the short tempers and violent reactions.

LOL of course not! You asked why people might think you are a woman when you are not so I made some suggestions based on what you've told us 😂

Really, until you start being honest about your sex, you won't know if the people you meet think you are a "woman" because they sense your innate non-physical womannyness, or if they think you are a "woman" because you use cultural tropes that they assume mean you are female and would not in fact consider you a "woman" if they knew you are male, or even that they do not in fact think you are a "woman" at all, but believe your presentation choices mean you would prefer for them to address you as if you were.

These tropes are not just clothes, but your choices of name, hair, makeup, mannerisms and so on, not to mention the obvious sorting hat of walking through doors (doors both literal and metaphorical) which are marked Women-only.

Now in case there's any doubt (or a bad faith pretence of doubt) I do not believe cultural presentation tropes like the above should be reserved for female people. I'd much rather a world where people can enjoy the styles they are drawn to without these having any connection to one sex or the other at all.

But I also recognise we are not in the world, so as with so many things Feminism needs to be concerned with, I can hold in my head, think rationally about and work to improve both what is true today for women and men and what might be possible in future for us.

My favourite was the one a couple of months back who claimed he passed so well that his kids didn't know he was trans!

Oh, I notice you haven't actually answered my question, just tried to bounce back with a defensive question of your own.

So, you claim that everyone you meet assumes you are female - why do you think that is?

You may not know how others are thinking but you can presumably observe yourself and other men and note what is different, so what do you think you do that is different to other men that leads them to conclude this?

He never answers the question, we've been here before with others.

Back to "Arm the Dolls" -

Was that taken at Pride London this weekend?

If so, does anyone know how many people marched? I'm interested to see whether the claim that most of the LGBT++ community rejects this type of TRA extremism stands up, or whether an "Arm the Dolls" T Shirt was in fact considered perfectly acceptable by the crowds attending the UK's biggest annual LGBT++ event.

(I have googled myself and there are lots of sources with an "expected" number of about 1.5 million but I only found one source giving an "actual" number which said it was 35,000. That is such a huge difference that I don't want to take it from a single source without corraboration.)

Was his name Mrs Doubtfire? Because MD fooled everyone.

Oh I know. That is exactly why I am pointing it out.

I think he won't answer the question in case he gives away a tell as a male perspective on women's dress. Which we all know he has anyway, so he might as well go ahead.

Yeah. And his doctor couldn’t tell either. Was that the one who went to a gynaecologist and had got told he was going through the menopause? Funniest threads ever

I actually think it would be amazing for trans women to openly claim their biological sex - names, pronouns, men's spaces not women's, the whole kit and kaboodle - while continuing to present exactly as they want to, and let society deal with them as they are with pride. It would solve all this bullshit culture war in one go - widen what it is to be a man and demand the protection, safety, acceptance and yes, celebration for transwomen as men that TRAs currently demand they must be given as "women".

Because as a female person I'll never celebrate or validate the sexism of a man who believes his inner sense of self makes him to all intents and purposes interchangable with me when it comes to sex-specific language, law, protections and rights, but by God I'd celebrate him as a man standing up and telling the world all the presentation-y things society tells us are reserved for woman look just as good (or in the case of me often better!) on men!

I'd fully support that, I think it would be good for an awful lot of men to broaden their bandwidth on how a man behaves and looks.

Yes a subset of men. Thats how it was until more recent times. Same as the 'LadyBoys' in Thailand. They're quite open with the fact that they are not female.