'Arm the Dolls'

[WrongKindOfFeminist]

Pictured is Natacha Kennedy of Goldsmiths.

T shirt says 'Arm the Dolls'

It's no mystery why women are skilled at picking up on 'cues'. We recognise 'coding' and understand the potential implications of failing to comply with tacit expectations.

What counts as presenting as female?

It always strikes me as incongruous that the very people who declare that they are ‘women’ don’t understand how female people are very successful in identifying who is and isn’t female from a range of body cues.

It really shows just how disconnected it is that male people make a declaration that they are ‘women’ yet have very little understanding of the very thing they claim to be. And then when this is pointed out they will come up with any number of fallacies to support their claim.

And FFS. Any person who passively or explicitly demands female language used for them is claiming they are not just ‘women’ but female. The two are not able to be separated no matter what queer theory or post modernist supporters believe. It is materially impossible.

And again… those male people keep also declaring they are not behaving in a sexist or misoygnist way. Because people are far too ‘kind’ to point it out when they have to opportunity to do so (ie the type of relationship where they can be bluntly honest and direct) .

Well as you visit everyone sees you as female, wouldn’t you know? I mean, you’re the one claiming no one can tell you are male.

I wouldn’t want to define what presenting as female means because 1) there is no set way to be female and 2) it’s not for me to define.

You say I present as female but you can’t tell me what that means

Tax your arms
Ditch the rolls
Could catch on for personal trainers.

Why do you claim everyone you meet recognises you as female, and uses the “correct” (from your perspective) pronouns, if you don’t make attempts to portray yourself as a woman?

I present myself in a feminine way because that is my style and what feels natural to me. I’m not going out of my way to make people see me as female, I’m just being me.

I would suggest a great place to start in answering the question of ‘what does presenting as female / a woman mean’ is allowing people to believe that you (general you) are female in any way, including passively or explicitly demanding female language is used for you. That is pretty much the epitome of ‘presenting as a female’ when you are male.

You're the one doing it, you tell us.

I have no need to present as female. No matter what I wear, no one ever mistakes me for a bloke.

So what is presenting in a feminine way?
Stop dodging the question.

I'm sure I read somewhere that it was Dave's gold lamé clutch bag, Edith.

Indeed. I imagine swishy hair and lipstick is involved, too.

I would like to know what presenting in a ‘feminine’ way is. In my trackie dacks and hoodie, I am still ‘feminine’ because I am female.

This is where this sexism goes. Male people who demand that other people treat them as if they are female, even passively, will keep trying to accessing that state however they can. The swivel from presenting as a woman/female to being ‘feminine’ or because they have ‘feminine personality traits’ to attempt to make the claim credible, even at a very low level of credibility.

It is all part of the wheedling. The pivot, and swivel.

I was told I presented as female first, and I still haven’t had an answer to what you think that means.

If you answer that, I’ll answer your question. Deal?

No, you said people automatically used the correct pronouns and accepted you as a woman.
So why do they do this?
Have you really no clue at all; because you look like every other bloke and have never intimated at all that you might believe you aren’t?
I don’t believe you…

Perhaps while you are explaining to the people who apparently consider you to be female that you are male, you could ask them why they made that mistake?

(Your choice to introduce yourself with a name usually used for female people might be a part of it, no?)

Of course, there are culturally many dress and demeanor sterotypes associated with being female that one could consider "presenting" as female. Feminists however mostly challenge these rather than reify them.

The only way to actually be female is to be biologically female. Anything else is adopting streotypes as if they were truth, or buggering around with language and bits of paper then claiming two things with the same name or same(ish) legal status must be the actual same thing, rather than simply a labelling issue.

You claim that everyone you meet assumes you are female - why do you think that is? What do you do that is different to other men that leads them to conclude this? You may not know how others are thinking but you can presumably observe yourself and other men and note what is different?

Any male person who demands others treat him as female, including passive language or other demands is ‘presenting as female’. That is all it takes.

And jingling jewellery and frocks.

I can shove my hair under a brown woolly hat, put on my bulky and shapeless all-weather mud-coloured coat and a pair of also shapeless mud-coloured waterproof trousers, and complete the get-up with unisex Muckboots, and I'm never mistaken for a bloke.

Similarly, I know a bloke with very lovely long dark blonde hair who often has it up in a bun. Seen from behind, so you can't see the stubble and the facial structure, in jeans and a jumper, he is obviously male.

Yep.

There is a bloke at a local shop where the uniform is unisex and he has long straight hair. From behind he is unmistakably male.

Do you use or have you in the past used the women's toilets? If yes then you are presenting as female. Do you use or have you used women's changing rooms? Do you use Miss, Mrs, Ms in your title? Or are you Mr? Is your passport marked as Male or Female? If you were admitted to hospital would you want to be in the male bays in a ward or woth the women?

You don't go out of your way to correct them either though.

Which I think is very interesting.

Because if you really believed they were reacting to you and not simply to a collection of culturally specific signifiers of womanhood that "just your style" has led you to adopt, you'd have no issue correcting them as they'd still be seeing and reacting to "the real you".

The fact that you don't shows that you know very well if they knew you were male under the "style" they wouldn't consider you female any more.

Out of interest, are your clothes tailored to a male body or do you ape a female body? In other words, are you changing your body to something else to fit the clothes that are your "style" or do the clothes that are your "style" fit to your own body?

Does the "style" in fact disguise rather than express the real person?

One of the other things that come up regularly seems to be this denial that a male person does anything to cause people to act as if they were female.

It is a distancing action. it is a denial of their own actions.

I'm still amused at you claiming not to compel speech, then posting a 'she' to 'correct' my 'he'.

Then back pedalling to claim it was a joke.

Own your lying, at least.

Just Bantz, eh!!!

Nothing registers with these male people that posting that on a feminist thread is just adding to the intimidation. That intimidation that apparently never happens…