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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Is being trans a 'disease'/mental health issue?

1000 replies

SolveMyPrombles · 26/06/2026 20:05

I'm asking on this board for deliberate considered responses so please do share your thoughts.

A lady on a local group has described being trans as a mental illness that should be treated with compassion not pandered to because it's a disease.

Looking into it more deeply I believe she's wrong and there is no current diagnostic manual that agrees with her take.

What do you think?

OP posts:
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12
Baileyonice · 29/06/2026 10:09

CornishDaughteroftheDawn · 29/06/2026 09:56

Detransitioners are presently are comparatively a huge minority group to transition so they hardly qualify as a repudiation of trans people. And studies point to trans people having 1% regret after surgery.

Except that slightly less biased and more recent research is showing closer to 30% and the likelihood of that continuing to climb is strong.

Every post of yours leaves me more and more confused as to the foundation of your beliefs and I feel like things are getting all tangled and confused. I am seeing contradiction and ever shifting generalisations that move me further away from understanding the core of your belief.

The core of my belief is as follows

Nobody can change sex
Humans are either male or female
In all situations where sex is relevant,
self experienced/declared/expressed ‘identity’ does not take precedence.

There are obviously further aspects and detail but those are the basics. Can you tell me which you agree with and if not, why?

Link?

NellieBly · 29/06/2026 10:11

MarieDeGournay · 29/06/2026 09:48

But by virtue of an association to the inclinations, behaviours or psychology more common to women they qualify under the umbrella hood of 'woman'.

No they don't!
That is an extraordinary statement - if a person 'associates' to/with something, they become it? Where is the logic in that?

Men who associate with things more common to women remain 'Men who associate with things more common to women'.

What process changes 'associating with' to 'qualifying as'?

Despite recent efforts to blur the distinctions, it is not difficult to categorise who is under the umbrella [or 'hood' - one of those see-through plastic ones you tie under your chin?] of being a woman, and who isn't. Lots of things in life are very complicated, but identifying who is male and who is female is not one of them.

'Associating with' is not 'being'.

Brilliantly put.

CornishDaughteroftheDawn · 29/06/2026 10:14

Baileyonice · 29/06/2026 09:25

"Non-binary is an umbrella term for gender identities that fall outside the traditional binary of strictly "man" or "woman". People who are non-binary may feel their gender is a blend of both, somewhere in between, completely different, or entirely absent. 1, 2, 3]
Because the experience of gender is deeply personal and varied, the term encompasses a wide range of specific identities and expressions."

Sounds good to me.

Man or woman are not ‘gender identities’ though - they are sexes.

The words might have been appropriated to claim they are but their core meaning remains.

So your definition of ‘non binary’ is a catch all description for literally everyone in the world even those who don’t believe in ‘gender’. That’s a pretty pointless definition imo.

CornishDaughteroftheDawn · 29/06/2026 10:15

Baileyonice · 29/06/2026 10:09

Link?

Any answer to my question?

BettyBooper · 29/06/2026 10:16

Baileyonice · 29/06/2026 10:08

The context is self gender identification via personally subjective values & beliefs. In other words its not your call to decide if another person is right or wrong because there is no right or wrong but the good news is you get to decide for your own self what you identify more with.

Which is fine. 'Identify' as whatever you want.

But a man cannot become a woman because humans can't change sex. Reality still remains reality. This is an objective truth.

And you have no right to compel my language on the basis of this subjective belief about yourself any more than you have the right (for example) to identify as really entertaining; I still have the right to think and say (for example) that you are not.

Baileyonice · 29/06/2026 10:18

Helleofabore · 29/06/2026 06:38

Her pointing out that a man made a decision that is common and one that he benefitted from, is not her saying he can’t be female because of that decision.

Put the statement back in context, she also referenced, before making that statement you consider significant, about how he was awarded a ‘woman of the year’.

It was her way to pointing out that he could achieve that award because of the success of his career which was supported by the mother of his children making the decision she did. Leaving him free to pursue success which led to supporting him gaining an award. (One meant for women)

You drew a flawed conclusion from her statement. You also removed important context about what she was referring to.

“a man who has lived for 40 years as a man and had children with a woman and enjoyed the services – the unpaid services of a wife, which most women will never know ... then decides that the whole time he’s been a woman.”

This above was a follow on statement to the comment about the women’s award Jenner was given. Context matters.

But getting back to what you seem to be attempting to claim.

Typical family decisions such as who is the primary carer, who of a couple may make a choice to not follow a previous career path but to look after the children, is just as weak as a tool for categorising sex classes in humans as personality traits.

She used the decision that family made to highlight the fact that Jenner benefitted from being male, while then declaring he was female. And then winning an award that was meant to recognise female people’s achievements, while he achieved the success he was awarded for as a male person.

She did not use the statement in any other way, in my opinion. She didn’t say ‘Jenner cannot be female because of the decision the family made’. That would be absurd. She used the statement to highlight the fact that he is male and he used the advantages of being male that he started acquiring from birth to his benefit.

Not that anyone making that same decision must be ‘male’. Because that too would be an absurd statement for Germaine Greer to make, given her many words in the past that would contradict such a statement.

If your assertion is that she declared that because Jenner didn’t choose to be the primary carer that Jenner is therefore not female, I think you have misinterpreted what she intended as I and others have pointed out.

Look, her 'truck driver' comment makes her implication crystal so save the excuses.

CornishDaughteroftheDawn · 29/06/2026 10:19

Seethlaw · 29/06/2026 10:03

Every post of yours leaves me more and more confused as to the foundation of your beliefs and I feel like things are getting all tangled and confused. I am seeing contradiction and ever shifting generalisations that move me further away from understanding the core of your belief.

That's because there is no core belief beyond, "People are what they say they are."

Which means that if you take one man and one woman and a third one of your choice, who all like exactly the same mix of "traditionally male" and "traditionally female" traits, the man can declare himself a woman, the woman can declare herself a man, and the third one can declare themselves non-binary - and we must all declare that it makes total sense.

Very true. You have a great way of expressing these things.

When reading certain posts I keep picturing the cartoon Roadrunner who has run out of road and is pedalling furiously in thin air trying to build new road in front of him using a bundle of planks he’s carrying. It’s like to trying pin down a will o’ the wisp.

Helleofabore · 29/06/2026 10:19

CornishDaughteroftheDawn · 29/06/2026 09:56

Detransitioners are presently are comparatively a huge minority group to transition so they hardly qualify as a repudiation of trans people. And studies point to trans people having 1% regret after surgery.

Except that slightly less biased and more recent research is showing closer to 30% and the likelihood of that continuing to climb is strong.

Every post of yours leaves me more and more confused as to the foundation of your beliefs and I feel like things are getting all tangled and confused. I am seeing contradiction and ever shifting generalisations that move me further away from understanding the core of your belief.

The core of my belief is as follows

Nobody can change sex
Humans are either male or female
In all situations where sex is relevant,
self experienced/declared/expressed ‘identity’ does not take precedence.

There are obviously further aspects and detail but those are the basics. Can you tell me which you agree with and if not, why?

I think it is refreshing that we now have confirmation that gender identification is solely based on personally subjective values & beliefs.

It is good to know so that people are under no illusions that their identity needs to be observed by any other person and that those male people have no basis at all for their access to female single sex provisions.

That BoI continues to maintain that they are a 'cis' person though is concerning when they are here educating us on transgender identities, often talking over Seethlaw. How does BoI know how transgender people understand themselves to speak so confidently about them when they are not transgender?

MarieDeGournay · 29/06/2026 10:21

Baileyonice · 29/06/2026 10:08

The context is self gender identification via personally subjective values & beliefs. In other words its not your call to decide if another person is right or wrong because there is no right or wrong but the good news is you get to decide for your own self what you identify more with.

I agree that it's not my call to say who is a man and who is a woman.
I'm happy to leave it to science to do that.

The good news is that there is a 'right/wrong' answer to : Is this person a man or a woman?' which makes things a lot less complicated than some would have us believe.

Helleofabore · 29/06/2026 10:22

Baileyonice · 29/06/2026 10:18

Look, her 'truck driver' comment makes her implication crystal so save the excuses.

Mate, you drew the wrong conclusions and you cannot admit it.

You removed the context of the statement and tried to make an argument for the statement to be interpreted in a way that it was very clearly not to be interpreted.

CornishDaughteroftheDawn · 29/06/2026 10:23

Helleofabore · 29/06/2026 10:19

I think it is refreshing that we now have confirmation that gender identification is solely based on personally subjective values & beliefs.

It is good to know so that people are under no illusions that their identity needs to be observed by any other person and that those male people have no basis at all for their access to female single sex provisions.

That BoI continues to maintain that they are a 'cis' person though is concerning when they are here educating us on transgender identities, often talking over Seethlaw. How does BoI know how transgender people understand themselves to speak so confidently about them when they are not transgender?

Good point. I’ll take Seethlaw’s extremely well considered explanations over the verbal quicksand of an inexperienced bystander every day of the week.

Baileyonice · 29/06/2026 10:25

CornishDaughteroftheDawn · 29/06/2026 10:15

Any answer to my question?

Nobody can change sex

Humans can't change gametal or chromosomal sex but they can change secondary sex traits.

Humans are either male or female

Males can be sexually distinguished from females reproductively, morphologically & Psychologically.

In all situations where sex is relevant,
self experienced/declared/expressed ‘identity’ does not take precedence.

I don't necessarily agree with you when sex is relevant so you will have to elaborate.

Link please.

Baileyonice · 29/06/2026 10:27

Helleofabore · 29/06/2026 10:22

Mate, you drew the wrong conclusions and you cannot admit it.

You removed the context of the statement and tried to make an argument for the statement to be interpreted in a way that it was very clearly not to be interpreted.

Go on explain the relevance of the 50 year old truck driver married with kids comment cause I didn't notice any 'undeserved awards' on that one.

CornishDaughteroftheDawn · 29/06/2026 10:27

Baileyonice · 29/06/2026 10:08

The context is self gender identification via personally subjective values & beliefs. In other words its not your call to decide if another person is right or wrong because there is no right or wrong but the good news is you get to decide for your own self what you identify more with.

So what is your argument for this entirely self experienced, self declared, subjective identity that is subject to change at the whim of the bearer overriding the immovable fact of a persons sex where it impacts others?

BettyBooper · 29/06/2026 10:29

Baileyonice · 29/06/2026 10:25

Nobody can change sex

Humans can't change gametal or chromosomal sex but they can change secondary sex traits.

Humans are either male or female

Males can be sexually distinguished from females reproductively, morphologically & Psychologically.

In all situations where sex is relevant,
self experienced/declared/expressed ‘identity’ does not take precedence.

I don't necessarily agree with you when sex is relevant so you will have to elaborate.

Link please.

Loosely translated as:

'No, humans can't change sex and yes there are males and females, but I still want men in women's spaces.... for reasons....

Link please'

Baileyonice · 29/06/2026 10:30

Helleofabore · 29/06/2026 10:19

I think it is refreshing that we now have confirmation that gender identification is solely based on personally subjective values & beliefs.

It is good to know so that people are under no illusions that their identity needs to be observed by any other person and that those male people have no basis at all for their access to female single sex provisions.

That BoI continues to maintain that they are a 'cis' person though is concerning when they are here educating us on transgender identities, often talking over Seethlaw. How does BoI know how transgender people understand themselves to speak so confidently about them when they are not transgender?

Same way a doctor gives advice to people of the opposite sex. They educate themselves.

BettyBooper · 29/06/2026 10:32

Baileyonice · 29/06/2026 10:30

Same way a doctor gives advice to people of the opposite sex. They educate themselves.

Wow! Have we actually reached the bottom of the barrel??!

callmeLoretta1 · 29/06/2026 10:32

Baileyonice · 29/06/2026 09:53

I don't know why you have answered me as if the studies I want to see done exist, they don't. I was referring to recorded suicide/attempted suicide rates.

You seem to be conveniently demanding a standard that can't be proven. Do you really need that tho to assess the increased risk of suicidality for trans people? As I already mentioned general risk factors that apply to the non trans population point to whether an increased risk factor applies.

Where are you getting your 1% figure from? All recent attempts to do this sort of study since the explosion in trans numbers have been shut down by pressure from the trans lobby.

Posted upthread. Conveniently changing the standard again to even more recent figures? Your attempts at denial are breathtaking.

All the arguments you trot out are the same unsubstantiated ones, that if trans people are unhappy after transition it's because "CIS" people treat them badly.

On the contrary social & familial rejection are broadly accepted suicide/mental health risk factors for the general population so they equally would apply to trans. It would help save repetition if you read my previous comments thoroughly.

You also don't seem to see the irony in suggesting that they are unhappy afterwards because they were unhappy before, without even considering that it was their unhappiness before that drove them to try to change their lives in such a radical way. And that transitioning has done little to help them but has introduced new difficulties.

Evidence? And no a few random detransitioners don't qualify.

Your de-transitioners figure is spurious, nobody is counting them.

Evidence that repudiates surveys?

Also if you block puberty and then keep people on cross sex hormones you will never know who would have de-transitioned and who wouldn't. There was a quote above about a female to male transitioner telling a friend she'd never felt so at home in her own body, or something like that. Yes, testosterone does that to women, you'll find huge arguments raging amongst doctors right now because of the number of women demanding testosterone because it makes them feel so good. Transition is the only way for a healthy woman to be prescribed testosterone.

Making someone 'feel better' & changing their perception of their core identity are two very different things.

The '1%' statistic was debunked long ago. Even WPATH admits it is much higher.

Is being trans a 'disease'/mental health issue?
Seethlaw · 29/06/2026 10:32

Baileyonice · 29/06/2026 10:30

Same way a doctor gives advice to people of the opposite sex. They educate themselves.

You did not educate yourself. You were indoctrinated. There's a massive difference.

Helleofabore · 29/06/2026 10:35

Baileyonice · 29/06/2026 10:27

Go on explain the relevance of the 50 year old truck driver married with kids comment cause I didn't notice any 'undeserved awards' on that one.

The clip I watched didn't include that comment so, I can only assume that she referred to the very fact that a male person who has impregnated their wife who then announces that he is female is not likely to be believed that he is female.

As you have confirmed, gender identity is only based on personally subjective values & beliefs, no one has to believe a thing that man says about him being female.

Where is what she said controversial?

Helleofabore · 29/06/2026 10:36

Baileyonice · 29/06/2026 10:30

Same way a doctor gives advice to people of the opposite sex. They educate themselves.

So, is everyone who says they have a transgender identity to be believed that they are transgender?

Baileyonice · 29/06/2026 10:38

MarieDeGournay · 29/06/2026 10:21

I agree that it's not my call to say who is a man and who is a woman.
I'm happy to leave it to science to do that.

The good news is that there is a 'right/wrong' answer to : Is this person a man or a woman?' which makes things a lot less complicated than some would have us believe.

The context is gender not sex.

You're welcome.

^ See what I did there? (social conventions are not truth statements).

Seethlaw · 29/06/2026 10:40

Helleofabore · 29/06/2026 10:35

The clip I watched didn't include that comment so, I can only assume that she referred to the very fact that a male person who has impregnated their wife who then announces that he is female is not likely to be believed that he is female.

As you have confirmed, gender identity is only based on personally subjective values & beliefs, no one has to believe a thing that man says about him being female.

Where is what she said controversial?

I can only assume that she referred to the very fact that a male person who has impregnated their wife who then announces that he is female is not likely to be believed that he is female.

Indeed. I found this quote in this article: https://www.theguardian.com/books/2016/apr/12/germaine-greer-tells-qa-her-trans-views-were-wrong-but-then-restates-them

“If you’re a 50-year-old truck driver who’s had four children with a wife and you’ve decided the whole time you’ve been a woman, I think you’re probably wrong,” she said.

She's perfectly right.

Baileyonice · 29/06/2026 10:41

CornishDaughteroftheDawn · 29/06/2026 10:27

So what is your argument for this entirely self experienced, self declared, subjective identity that is subject to change at the whim of the bearer overriding the immovable fact of a persons sex where it impacts others?

Conflicting rights can be managed according to social harms & benefits. That's why special exemptions to discrimination exist.

Baileyonice · 29/06/2026 10:44

callmeLoretta1 · 29/06/2026 10:32

The '1%' statistic was debunked long ago. Even WPATH admits it is much higher.

Hi MN commenter here, I can make any assertions I want here & on email & not have to provide any evidence for moronic cultists to swallow!!!!

The 'WPATH files' don't qualify as evidence

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