Tempest v Rural Payments Agency Tribunal Thread (follow on from Chair of SEEN is being sued)

[myladydisdainisyetliving]

Previous thread: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5031904-the-chair-of-seen-is-being-sued
TT substack: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/tempest-vs-defra-and-rural-payments

Tempest (a TW) is claiming discrimination, harassment and/or victimisation on grounds of gender reassignment. Central to the claim is the Sex Equality and Equity Network in the Civil Service (SEEN or IP). SEEN has been granted right to intervene. Parts of the original claim against the co-chair of SEEN (Elspeth Duemmer-Wrigley) and another party (Andreas Mueller) were struck out or narrowed. Another claimant, PQ, is no longer part of the case.

The hearing is in Leeds; the number of online observers has been limited by the court due to "capacity" and posters are reporting that requests for links are being declined on those grounds.

Also to note that Elspeth still has a garden in need of seeds and water to support the ability of SEEN to be an intervenor in this case.

Back to work adjustments included removing him from all the groups he used to trawl looking for things to be upset about.

Jesus Christ on a bike.

He could have just turned his own Yammer notifications off then just browsed the groups he was a member of.

None of this makes any sense.

You wouldn't want to be cornered by him in a pub, put it like that. It's easy to imagine him being the type of man who would do so, and regale you at length about how unfair life is.

I think it's interesting that so far there has been absolutely no comment that I can see on Reddit/trans/uk over the last three days (there may be earlier commentary; I haven't looked for it). I mean, normally they're all over stuff like this.

Could have set email rules so Viva Engage emails went straight to deleted items but I don't believe there isn't a way to stop them in the first place.

From TT:

ST: But I still get emails from Viva Engage?
AL: Yes, one not removed
ST: Yes, employee benefits one. But I also get occasionally a round-up email of random groups, don't appear to have stopped that one. Would like to point out -

AL: Just to say, when I pause I am waiting for J to take notes - no need to expand your answer.
AL: The IT recommendation, do you agree that it was not operationally feasible to do the original suggestions?
ST: That's what email says, so, yes

AL: J apologies, I need to check a reference - I think, 1307 - yes.
AL: This is Lewis Silkin on your behalf to Lorraine A, request to be placed on fully paid special leave immediately.

AL: This is at a point where you have been judged fit to return to work (subject to adjustments). You are instead asking for full pay not to work?
ST: Yes because resolution not achieved, so, leave until things resolved.

AL: But your return to work was to WFH?
ST: Yes
AT: Exposure to Yammer much reduced?
ST: To a degree.
AL: Fit to work - we've seen OH?
ST: Yes

AL: So, not reasonable to ask for this leave?
ST: My mental health - not reasonable to ask me to run risk of exposure to anything - not taking the mickey in any way - sensible request.

Sensible Request!

It's notable that there hasn't been a single interjection by C's counsel during C's evidence.

I hope @myladydisdainisyetliving hasn't fallen off her ladder at this latest revelation!!

From TT:

AL: p1946 special leave policy. Different areas where it could apply - contents list here. Policy deals with specific situations where special leave might apply. None of these apply to you, do they?
ST [reading policy]

ST: Nothing in the contents list does, not, but wd point out that "domestic reasons" cd mean special leave in some circs - have seen SL used for all kinds of reasons - policy can't capture everything. These are just the most frequent, this list is not exhaustive I don't think

AL: It might not be exhaustive - but it is clear what kind of thing is meant. Burglary - flood - domestic abuse. It's hard to see how "unfinished grievance" would fit into that.
ST: A MH condition -
AL: You did not have one at that time?

ST: The OH assessment is clear, RtW dependent on it not being a harassing environment

AL: We clearly have diff of opinion here so I will move on.
AL: Judge are you considering ending for the day?
J: yes, depends how long for next topic
AL: This is last document - maybe 5 minutes? We are nearly done here.

I am utterly bemused but presumably uninformed.

Soooooo, on work time and kit a bloke looks for stuff that he finds offensive and, er, gets offended and bleats that his employer won't pay him not to work because he's seen some offensive stuff and it's not at all his fault?????? What am I missing here?

So he went back to work just before half pay started then immediately demanded full pay special leave to go absent again so he wasn't exposed to anything that he himself could have taken measures to avoid.

FFS

From TT:

AL: p1311 This is reply on 17/1 to special leave request, from line manager, says special leave not appropriate as it is for short term not long term measure, can't be open-ended.

AL: Next page - but does give you a short period of special leave so that they can sort out the tech issues.
ST: Yes some special leave.

AL: And says that after that working conditions would be in place and special leave not reasonable.
ST: We had reached an impasse, if I'd stayed away it would have been unauthrorised absence - didn't want to do that. So, RtW -
AL: Checking, that means WFH
ST: Yes WFH

AL: And your pay was never reduced to half pay?
ST: No - wd have been if I had been on leave any longer, but it wasn't.

AL: That is the end of my section.
J: How much longer for cross-ex?
AL: Probably another day.
J: Miss Cunningham?
NC [hard to hear]
J: roughly?
NC: probably a day.

And there we have it, ladies and gentlemen, saying The Quiet Part aloud for every fragile flower out there for the past 15 years - no need to deny it anymore, students at Oxford, activists releasing crickets, every 20 year old who has ever written "Terf" on a placard, and who can't get out of bed unless everyone around them repeats three times 'You Are The Most Speshul in The Universe'.

Your compatriot Samantha has said it for you:

(my bold) ST: My mental health - not reasonable to ask me to run risk of exposure to anything -

J: Miss Cunningham?
NC [hard to hear]
J: roughly?
NC: <grabs judge and shakes his shoulders>PROBABLY A DAY!

Sorry - I've always loved that joke.

Ooh NC on Monday

Will he survive day of cross examination by NC? Can you go on the sick during you're own tribunal?😂

From TT:

J: Presence of intervenor is not common - I think re-exam after intervenor?
[all agree to this]
J: So another couple of days. And then next witness Ms Dunn.

J: So timetabling - we will give everyone all the time they need. [reminds ST not to discuss case over the weekend]
J: Do I have the final agreed list of issues?
HH: Yes, sent by email.
NC: [can't quite here - some doc to send I think]
J: All in place for Monday please.

J: Re supplementary bundles - [discussion of getting agreed copies of these other than by email bcs not ideal] [various counsel discussing]

NC: Reminds me that we were going to come up with agreement re availablity to eg journalists?
AL: We can discuss outside
J: Reminder that for court it is a Q of resources.
HH: [again I can't really here - only AL has a microphone]

HH: [concern re bundle - not all docs in it get referred to in court - tribunal loses control of the doc if issued electronically] [there is more but as I say I can't hear well]

J: I think TribunalTweets are here - not singling you out! - just that if there is s/o actually here they can view paper copies of course, that's the normal way. Data protection, confidential information, and so on, there are some issues.

J: We should all mull this over - we will sort this out, but I think should not decide things now.
NC: You mentioned WS - not in same category?
J: Indeed yes - in public domain once witness has sworn them in.
J: Thank you everyone - see you Monday.

[END]

I thought NC Tuesday with another day of AL on Monday. What else can be said!

No, NC on Tuesday, if I understand correctly. AL wants another day!

Can someone else c&p on Monday? I think I should be able to on Tuesday, though for various reasons I can't promise.

Today was quite a day though. We've had some... interesting... witnesses over the course of these various tribunals, but this one is up there with the most interesting!

NC Tuesday as AL gets another day so he gets Monday.

Someone commented about Naomi over-running. She did with Jane Russell because Jane carefully took most of the time that Naomi was supposed to get. There were also 11th hour disclosures and some defamation to deal with. I think she was in one case that finished early although I may have got my lawyers confused.

I’ve just done a search on there for posts containing Tempest over the past week. Nothing.

Oh thanks everyone. I missed that AL is having another day on Monday.

Also interesting that the Good Laugh project dont seem to have asked for funds to support this. Samantha claims to have been forced to return to work to pay the bills so where is the money coming from?