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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

The chair of SEEN is being sued.

400 replies

PriOn1 · 19/03/2024 18:07

We can’t post Crowdfunder links here, but there is now a Crowdfunder entitled “Chair of SEEN sued for saying 'only women menstruate'by Elspeth Duemmer Wrigley”


Text from website:

Who are you?
I'm Elspeth Duemmer Wrigley. I work for an arms-length body to a government department (part of the Civil Service) and love my job. I'm also gender critical, and chair of a governmental department SEEN (Sex Equality and Equity Network). SEEN represents those who are gender critical in our workplace. 
What can you tell us?
The way I describe the case is restrained by my situation. I am writing this in a personal capacity, but am still employed and must comply with my employer's code of conduct and the Nolan Principles of Public Life. This places certain restrictions on me. 
I’ve given as much information as I can, but I hope that what I set out below is sufficient to understand what’s going on. 
So what happened?
I work for an arms-length body to the main government department. The case has been brought by a claimant who is an employee of another arms-length body. The claimant is taking their own employer, the government department and me to court.
Among other matters, the claimant is suing the government department for allowing our departmental SEEN network to exist (on the basis that the existence of the network has the effect of creating an intimidating, hostile, degrading, humiliating and/or offensive environment for the claimant). 
What is the SEEN network?
SEEN (the Sex Equality and Equity Network) is an official cross-governmental staff network. We also have networks in three government departments (including the one being taken to court).  SEEN is known as the gender critical network and is the only civil service network that clearly treats sex and sexual orientation as concepts defined in the Equality Act, which should never be conflated with or replaced by ‘gender identity’.

OP posts:
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terffert · 19/03/2024 18:17

Omfg. Gardened. Bump.

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Ereshkigalangcleg · 19/03/2024 18:19

WTAF?

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UltraLiteLife · 19/03/2024 18:19

That's quite the warning shot to people gathering their courage to join SEEN.

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Ereshkigalangcleg · 19/03/2024 18:19

Yes, chilling effect.

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Ereshkigalangcleg · 19/03/2024 18:21

I don't see how they can win, case law being as it is, if it's just the straightforward existence of a gender critical network they are objecting to.

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PronounssheRa · 19/03/2024 18:21

Oh for fucks sake. Here we go again.

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GenderBlender · 19/03/2024 18:22

Networks for me, but not for thee

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Boiledbeetle · 19/03/2024 18:26

How of these do we have to go through before people start to get the fact that this is not OK?

The chair of SEEN is being sued.
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WomanWithoutNeedOfPrefix · 19/03/2024 18:26

All the more reason to join up to SEEN if you are able to. It's just plain old bullying of those with the protected belief of being gender critical. We must stand up to bullies.

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Boiledbeetle · 19/03/2024 18:29

The why am i being sued section"

Why are you being sued?
I am being sued for comments and posts made in the workplace, including:

  • A statement made during a seminar on 'Women and Autism' in which I stated that ‘only women menstruate’. 
  • A post listing the 9 protected characteristics from the Equality Act, which highlighted that gender expression, gender identity and gender were not listed as protected characteristics. This followed errors in staff training where some or all of these were included
  • A link shared to a well known children’s book, “My Body is Me” by Rachel Rooney www.transgendertrend.com/product/my-body-is-me/ 
  • A link shared to a SEEN website published interview with detransitioner and fellow civil servant Ritchie Herron seen-network.uk/posts/2023-03-12-detrans-awareness-day/ 
  • A link shared to a SEEN website piece written by a young lesbian colleague discussing her Jamaican heritage and experience of being a lesbian in the civil service. seen-network.uk/posts/2023-03-27-why-is-seen-important-to-me-v/
  • In addition, I am being sued for a statement made in July 2022 on an internal work forum in which I explained why I was gender critical (below)
The chair of SEEN is being sued.
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eldorado02 · 19/03/2024 18:31

I’m a member of SEEN and received the email that alluded to this the other day. Utterly disgraceful.

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Boiledbeetle · 19/03/2024 18:33

Boiledbeetle · 19/03/2024 18:29

The why am i being sued section"

Why are you being sued?
I am being sued for comments and posts made in the workplace, including:

  • A statement made during a seminar on 'Women and Autism' in which I stated that ‘only women menstruate’. 
  • A post listing the 9 protected characteristics from the Equality Act, which highlighted that gender expression, gender identity and gender were not listed as protected characteristics. This followed errors in staff training where some or all of these were included
  • A link shared to a well known children’s book, “My Body is Me” by Rachel Rooney www.transgendertrend.com/product/my-body-is-me/ 
  • A link shared to a SEEN website published interview with detransitioner and fellow civil servant Ritchie Herron seen-network.uk/posts/2023-03-12-detrans-awareness-day/ 
  • A link shared to a SEEN website piece written by a young lesbian colleague discussing her Jamaican heritage and experience of being a lesbian in the civil service. seen-network.uk/posts/2023-03-27-why-is-seen-important-to-me-v/
  • In addition, I am being sued for a statement made in July 2022 on an internal work forum in which I explained why I was gender critical (below)

The last of the reasons why she is being sued got missed off my last post

This is a personal post about being ‘gender critical’: a shout out, a welcome and a reach across the barricades.

Diversity of belief makes our organisation stronger and our lives more interesting. Inclusivity makes us feel welcome and able to be our authentic selves. Those who are lesbian, gay, transgender, disabled, BAME, neurodiverse, from different social backgrounds and religions, and those with other experiences all enrich our organisation.

There are many protected beliefs in our organisation, some religious (such as Christitianity) and some philosophical (such as veganism). Some people believe that we all have a gender (sometimes ‘gender identity’) separate from our biological sex; that sex is a spectrum, and that biological sex is an idea that first emerged with white European colonisation. Such beliefs are protected by law.

Other people, such as myself, hold that sex is binary (male and female), fundamentally biological and an important category to recognise in language, laws, sport and [the] workplace. These beliefs, sometimes called ‘gender critical’ are also protected by law. 

A number of organisations and charities cater specifically for those with protected beliefs around gender identity (for example, Mermaids, Stonewall and Gires). Writers and activists with these beliefs are posted on Yammer. However, despite occasionally taking positions some may consider controversial, the exploration of different views is to be welcomed. We are an organisation with many different perspectives, after all.

For those interested in learning more about what it means to be ‘gender critical’ there are also a range of charities and organisations that speak for those of us with this protected belief. These include Sex Matters, LGB Alliance and Transgender Trend. I’d also be happy to talk directly with anyone interested, especially to dispel some of the myths that this is a position rooted in ignorance, bigotry or hate, or that those such as myself have any ill-will towards those in other communities. 
^^
I am sure there is more common ground than difference in this sometimes heated debate.”

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MrsOvertonsWindow · 19/03/2024 18:36

Dreadful as this is for her, it's a classic example of #OperationLetThemSpeak.
It's important that the public see the extreme levels of bullying and harassment used by self absorbed transactivists to silence the truth - especially those who use the civil service as a tool to push transactivism. You only have to look at the DfE's actions over the last decade in funding Mermaids etc to see how bloody dangerous these people are to children.

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Theydontknowaboutus · 19/03/2024 18:36

Oh fgs, when will this end? Have contributed - and thank you Elspeth.

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SeatonCarew · 19/03/2024 18:37

I've tried but can't find it, can't see a search function.

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GailBlancheViola · 19/03/2024 18:37

Among other matters, the claimant is suing the government department for allowing our departmental SEEN network to exist (on the basis that the existence of the network has the effect of creating an intimidating, hostile, degrading, humiliating and/or offensive environment for the claimant). 

Nothing authoritarian there at all. FFS the people that do this will only be happy when we are living in a totalitarian dictatorship with them being the ones being driven around in the black cars.

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Timefortea4 · 19/03/2024 18:38

I don't understand why she is personally liable for legal costs. Can any of us be sued by a colleague at work?

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MrsOvertonsWindow · 19/03/2024 18:39

Wow - she's already reached her first target (£3,000) and now has a £40,000 stretch target.

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Snowypeaks · 19/03/2024 18:40

Seriously, how is this even allowed? Her beliefs are protected, how can this court action be anything other than harassment?

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Boiledbeetle · 19/03/2024 18:43

SeatonCarew · 19/03/2024 18:37

I've tried but can't find it, can't see a search function.

Go to the main Crowd justice page click on Menu top right and select explore cases. Then you can search for chair of seen

The chair of SEEN is being sued.
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PriOn1 · 19/03/2024 18:44

I’m also a member of SEEN and have contributed.

That’s an incredibly fast response.

This has to end.

OP posts:
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Needmoresleep · 19/03/2024 18:46

When is this going to end?

Thank you for your courage.

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AgnesX · 19/03/2024 18:46

Good god almighty. What is it with these people. I'll be watching with interest.

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Propertylover · 19/03/2024 18:48

Donated.
I am not surprised about there being a claim. From everything I have observed SEEN has behaved impeccably so it’s going to be difficult for the claimant to prove their case.

As this appears to be a joint case with another government department it potentially could be big.

I wonder whether Elspeth is a member of a TU and, if so, whether they are supporting her as they appear captured.

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duc748 · 19/03/2024 18:52

Arguably there should be more, and louder criticism of trades unions, who have largely failed dismally in their core function of speaking up for their members on this issue.

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