Transgender women will not be prosecuted in the use of women’s single sex facilities

[Theotheruser]

You can support transgender rights or not but the law isn’t itself politics. Transgender women will not be prosecuted in the use of women’s single sex facilities in public in the standard use the facilities was built for.

A standard use is:

• A transgender woman goes into the women’s toilet facilities in a cubicle for the purposes of relieving bodily fluids.
• A transgender woman goes into the women’s changing facilities in a cubicle for the purposes of removing clothing for leisure activities.
• A transgender woman goes into the women’s toilet facilities to protect the transgender women of being attacked or sexually assaulted.

A transgender woman in the standard uses of the women’s facilities are not exposing the users of the single sex facilities.

A transgender woman in the standard uses of the women’s facilities are not exposing child users in the single sex facilities.

A child user using single sex women’s facilities can’t deny other women public access of the facilities the child user believes are transgender.

With official documentation of the new sex will be difficult to disprove the claim of the transgender women being the male sex.

No harassment or sexual offences can be found against the transgender woman in the standard use of the women’s facilities with official documentation of the new sex.

A woman in the women’s single sex facility can be prosecuted for an offence and or removed if the woman is abusing or harassing the other user of being transgender without proof.

A woman recording and sharing publicly the other user without proof of being transgender can prosecuted.

The Supreme Court ruling or EHRC guidance has not changed the law to prosecute transgender women in women’s single sex spaces.

Transgender women have history of official records to support beyond a reasonable doubt the new gender identity. Have protection of gender discrimination.

Prosecution of transgender women is not going to work in the standard uses of the women’s facilities.

A woman can complain to management but unless management decides to take action to resolve the issue no action can be taken against the other user.

Transgender individuals can stay out of whatever closet they choose. What they can’t do is go into a single sex space other than that which they were born. Hth.

Luckily other people do have courage and money, and they won’t stop challenging these men.

Fourth, please.

unless they’re disabled they can’t take our spaces either.

Yes, I phrased that poorly. Wasn’t implying they should use disabled spaces.

You mean female people who identify as men? No, they won't usually stop those people going into female-only spaces.

I think you are possibly underestimating how many steely women of independent means there are. Now I know the law is on my side I'll be challenging every penis-bearing person that I spot in women's spaces and politely questioning the maybes.

They haven't won. I don't have a job, I own my house outright, if they thump me it will make great publicity when I post the video.

That’s a very weirdly blanket statement. They don’t really need to police spaces as such but if a persistent man insists on using the women’s space they may be at risk of legal action for but providing single spaces.

I’m not sure what you are hoping to achieve with your strangely goady posts. I guess you’ll just have to carry on snd see what happens.

It will be the disabled toilets business will use as third and fourth spaces. The toilet will be clogged or dirty so it will be bad for disabled people. :(

You aren't in a position to campaign actively for women's human rights? Fair enough. Neither am I.

But don't be so defeatist! Courage calls to courage!
There are lots of other women, and men, who are not prepared to shrug and say 'there's nothing we can do, less than 2% of the population have bullied us all so thoroughly that they can trash our rights, and we just have to accept that women don't matter'.

Outside of a trans-ally bubble, most people are too sensible to believe that people can change sex. This irrational unscientific undemocratic fad will pass.

Why is it only the disabled toilets these people are going to clog and leave dirty?

It is easier to not notice a transgender woman in the women’s space and go on with your life.

Being able to not notice would be nice, I assume you don’t work in an environment with many as they make it really fucking impossible not to notice them.

Please stop using the word 'trans'

Nobody can change sex. Therefore, there is no such thing as 'trans'. The earth is not flat, nor can it be 'trans-flat'. It's easy to tell the difference between someone who has 'male' stamped on every cell of his body: Got a y? That's a guy. Double x? Fairer sex. Stop using the language of a fetishist's and fantasist's cult.

If someone demands entry to a Palace, and wants everyone else to call him 'your highness', he will and must fail to get anyone to obey. If he decides he is an MP, he won't be allowed to vote in Parliament. If he decides he is a General, he won't find soldier obeying him. He is not a 'trans' royal, nor a 'trans politician' nor a 'trans soldier'

He is not and can never be a 'trans woman'

It has happened. Multiple times. And no one can call the SCJ or yesterday's court judgment an 'echo chamber'.

It's not a case of anyone having 'won', it's a case of the needs of men with gender identities having their own resources and their own spaces provided, and being required to respect for the first time that women have rights equal to theirs, and while their needs must and absolutely should be met, they cannot remove needed resources and access from women.

If you're this deep in despair about it all then women here will encourage you any time, write to your MP, Sex Matters and FWS will always be there for you, and so will the remarkable women who do have the courage and time and funding to take these things through a court. As many have now done, which resulted in the SCJ and cases like yesterday's.

This is the natural reaction to the law having been clarified in ways that this group of men do not like. But all this is about is having to respect the equality and parity of women's rights; it will all settle down. These men will not be left without care, support and resources.

Unlike the women who are unable to use mixed sex spaces and were left with nothing at all, a number injured, and very few people caring, certainly not transactivists. These men have much, more than they ever let women have.

I’m genuinely mystified what you want to achieve in posting this thread

You way you describe transwomen, they come across very badly:
Not only do they not respect the law, they clearly don't respect women, and now you say they also don't respect disabled people?
If what you say is true, that's despicable!

Really.

Important to note to those worried (edited to add I didn't mean you Marie, just your post mentioned several previous posts): the posting guidelines aren't keen on negative generalisations, probably better to be clear you're not talking about an entire population refusing to respect women's or disabled spaces, or you might risk deletion.

This makes even less sense. It sounds like you run some sort of business.

Im not sure how putting up a sign debuting female only or male only for your relevant spaces will harm your income. I guess if you decided to turn a blind eye to men using your women’s facility and that became known locally, then it may harm your income.

You are obviously at liberty to make that decision but it would be a choice you make, prioritise men using women’s spaces and potentially lose women customers or tell men to use the men’s spaces and keep the women happy. I certainly wouldn’t spend my money with a business that didn’t respect my basic rights.

By 'you' you mean Theotheruser, I assume?
edited to add that I just saw your 'edited to add'
I was just drawing conclusions...

I’m not accusing transgender people of negative generalisations. I’ve met trans women and they respect women’s rights.

Also they're incapable of leaving a toilet clean. Great bunch of lads.

Well actually yes, your post about 'transgender women have won' could be taken to imply exactly that; that you mean all men with gender identities will ignore the law and women's equality. As you say, that won't be the case.

But on the other hand apparently all “trans women” respect women’s rights? Who have they “won” over exactly then, if that’s the case? 🤔

Not if they’re transgressing into women’s single sex spaces they don’t.

I work with a transgender woman and they use the disabled toilets as the women space is in their words “private and sacred area to do your business”.

If you are a service provider OP and you're worried about what you would do, or feeling that it is 'easier' just to ignore the law to save dealing with a man kicking off, I have sympathy and you might benefit from starting a thread asking specifically for advice, there's legal people around here.

But sadly ignoring the law won't be consequence free, as you might save yourself a difficult conversation in the short term, but will be at risk all the time of a woman user who will take legal action because of your service being discriminatory. And knowing the law, you won't have much of a leg to stand on.