Another victory! For Women Scotland v Scottish Ministers in prisons case

[TheNoWord]

It’s just been on the news in Scotland. More to follow….

I look forward to all the armchair experts now droning on about how the Judges got it totally wrong and something something goodwin something equality act something something I have a female passport. therefore violent sex offenders should be put in locked cells with women.

If we could harness the amount of hot air that comes out of those predictable cakeholes, it'd could power the national grid for days.

I don't think this is necessarily a loophole - it reads to me that, should such as situation arise then the SPS might reapply to have the specifics of that single case heard in court.

I would assume that their argument would be along the lines of it being one trans prisoner and to keep them segregated would be detrimental to their mental health therefore they were applying for them to be moved to a female prison where they would not be segregated (!).

However there are other solutions such as keeping them with other male prisoners at high risk of harm themselves, or keeping them with male prisoners who are assessed as being of low risk of causing harm, or moving them to a trans unit elsewhere in the prison estate.

It's not a case of "if this happens then you can move them", although there will be much attempt for it to be read as so in some quarters.

Agree, @ditalini having read the relevant part in full.

Don't forget right wing funding something American religious right something JKR boo hiss cubicles have locks we've always been here something criminal gender

Yes! And a rejection of the claim that not letting trans identified males into women’s spaces constitutes a breach of the Human Rights Act:

A trans prisoner may consider that these measures, even taken at their most extensive, are insufficient to allow for life, to use Baroness Hale’s words, “as fully a man or as fully a woman as the case may be” but there is no case to support an argument that Article 8 entails a right for a trans woman to live in the same place as and in the company of women.

the clearest I’ve ever heard a judge spell this out!

The 'suicide' bit is an irritating bit of fog -

I wish they didn't keep focusing solely on the 'rights' of men with gender identities. It's not the whole truth. When it comes back that 'there's no Article 8 right' (without limits) etc with nothing further, it suggests that ok, the right is needed and that's the next step.

When the reality actually is that women have Article 8 rights too and the sex segregation of prisons is necessary for the massive majority of prisoners who aren't men with gender beliefs.

The only way to maintain equal article 8 rights is to provide additional units for these men; to meet their wishes and needs without depriving women of privacy, dignity, safety and legal protections.

We are I think going to see an attempt made to remove women and gay rights from the Equality Act. I suppose at least Reform want to remove everybodys rights and protections equally.

My worry is, these court cases are being won on interpretation of the law- and quite right, too. The law states we have sex based rights, and they cannot include people of the other sex. It doesn’t say, and this is good and right and must not be changed.

Are they going to try and change the law? How would that happen? .

Excellent. I really, really needed some good news today.

Well it won't be in any manifesto; Labour didn't put any of their dirtier deeds honestly in plain sight when they went to the electorate.

I find it exasperating that in all these judgments women are just - furniture, never stakeholders, never mentioned. The issue is not the presented one - the law is wrong and needs fixing to supply the missing right for these men - but that women's rights are equal to those of these men, and this is about a conflict of rights. The right sought is in essence, to hold legal supremacy over women and gay rights. Not equality but supremacy.

O John Swinney - GET IT RIGHT UP YE!

I mean. Well done, those women.

'You really mean to tell me that we can't put murderous men in women's prisons?!'

'That's right'

'But these men are REALLY SAD!!!'

Any Maugham or Reddit reaction yet?

So. When can we expect SPS to move the men out of women's prisons?

I don’t have my Reddit phone on me.

https://www.reddit.com/r/transgenderUK/comments/1u9z4j6/for_women_scotland_iii/

Indeed! But could they appeal? Which would presumably freeze everything?

Presumably they think this outcome is because JKR has been giving bungs to judges again? 🤔

I just glanced at it. General fainting fits that anyone could possibly put really very sad men into men's prisons.

i might have to fire up my Bluesky account…

Fantastic! Thank you again FWS, what amazing women.

https://genderblog.net/men-in-scottish-womens-prisons-unlawful/

Excellent news - but so frustrating that case even needed to be brought

Excellent news. Well done FWS. Again, you've done a great job at defending women's rights. I wonder if the women who was sexually assaulted by a violent (convicted murderer) TiM recently in the Greenock prison will be able to sue the Scottish government and SPS?

“It's not risk of sexual assault. It's practically guaranteed.”

Rather like the practical guarantee of more sexual assaults if you put men in women’s prisons.

They are very sad.

I’m sure they can ask for solitary confinement for their own protection.

And of course, they could actually not break the law to the extent that they would be jailed.

So sad for them.