Push and pull factors in transitioning

[GCScot]

People's motivations in making a change can be categorised into 'push' and 'pull' factors. 'Push' factors are your dissatisfaction with your current state. 'Pull' factors are the perceived advantages of another state.

I started thinking about the possible push and pull factors for people transitioning their gender. It made me realise that there are two distinct groups:

Group 1 = mainly motivated by push factors. i.e. they are unhappy with their sexed body. They include:

• Women/girls with internalised misogyny

• Gay people with internalised homophobia

• Non-genderconforming autistic people who have internalised sexist stereotypes as fact

• Survivors of abuse/trauma who are trying to protect themselves from future abuse/trauma

Group 2 = mainly motivated by pull factors. i.e. they are attracted to being/being perceived to be the opposite sex. They include:

• People who are sexually aroused by the idea of themselves being the opposite sex (AGP/AAP)

• People who think they can gain a personal advantage (sporting/competitive/sexual access) by claiming to be the opposite sex

Group 1 are mainly children and young adults, especially girls. They have gender dysphoria. Because they are trying to permanently and convincingly escape their sexed bodies, they are more likely to undergo medical modifications (surgery, artificial hormones). They have a diverse range of vulnerabilities as a result of their own personal life experiences and the prejudices of society

Group 2 are mainly adult men. We might say they have gender euphoria. Because they aren't trying to escape their sexed bodies they are unlikely to undergo medical modification, preferring temporary and superficial modifications such as clothes, make up, prosthetics, names and pronouns. The majority of the aggressive vocal TRAs come from this group

TRAs deliberately merge the two groups

They know they can utilise the sincerity, vulnerability and innocence of Group 1:
Trans appears in childhood - it must be innate!
Trans appears in childhood - it can't be sexually motivated!
Trans people have gender dysphoria - they're vulnerable!
Look at the lengths they'll go to (surgery, hormones) - they must be genuine!

But when it comes to the motivations of trans people, the TRAs suddenly switch track. They emphasise the pull factor acting on Group 2 ("wanting to be a wo/man") rather than the push factor acting on Group 1 (trying to escape your sexed body). Because any detailed discussion of just why someone might want to escape their body would raise awkward questions about whether wanting to transition is really a cause for celebration and affirmation.

I think it's very important we distinguish between the two groups when discussing objections to gender ideology. They are very different groups with different motivations and consequences. I think part of the reason so many trans allies are resistant to changing their opinions or even discussing the issue is because most of the trans people they know are Group 1s. They recognise these people's sincerity and vulnerability and have been duped by Group 2 TRAs into not examining the underlying push and pull factors of transition

So, time for the great unanswered question, what does living as a woman mean? Please answer without referring to clothing, hair length and make up.

Thanks, I've been waiting for a coherent answer to this one for years now.

Living as a woman means navigating the world within the social, legal, and relational category of 'woman.'

Ah, circular definitions have made an appearance I see.

So if a man is living as a woman, can you give some examples of things that are different in his life from how they would be if he was living as a man?

And what does that really mean?

Also, you said transwomen shouldn't be permitted in female single sex spaces, so how does that square with what you said above?

Can I ask why you don't thinks transwomen should be in women's spaces? Surely you don't think we have valid concerns?

I think Deer's position is pretty consistent.

She accepts the validity of transwomen as a group.
She doesn't advocate giving transwomen access to female single sex spaces.
She accords them the courtesy of preferred pronouns unless their behaviour shows they don't deserve that courtesy.

As a staunchly GC woman, I can understand and respect her opinion even though I subscribe to Barracker's Pronouns Are Rhohypnol.

Not everyone who agrees with using pronouns accepts the whole TRA nonsense of men in women's prisons etc.

I find it odd that pronouns depend on behaviour.

It means a complete shift in how the world interacts with you every single day.
When living as a trans woman, your medical care, and how doctors listen to your symptoms change. The way you are spoken to in a professional setting, the biases you face in business, and the social expectations of how you communicate all change. You are treated, perceived, and judged by the exact same societal standards as any other woman.

But she said:
Living as a woman means navigating the world within the social, legal, and relational category of 'woman.'

Someone who isn't permitted in women only spaces is hardly "navigating the world within the social and legal category of 'woman'".

So it's all to do with how they're treated by other people, not what they do themselves?

Is there anything he actually does himself which is different from living as a man?

You are treated, perceived, and judged by the exact same societal standards as any other woman.

This is only true if you pass perfectly. If you don't, then you are treated as a man who presents as a woman, which is an entirely different thing.

I don't - just how much politeness or slack I give someone depends on whether I think they are a decent person or not.

If Deer doesn't think they are women, but rather people who prefer to present in a feminised manner and wish to be referred to as she/her, whether she goes along with it can depend on whether she thinks they are dodgy chancers or not.

Spinny skirt, presumably.

You are treated, perceived, and judged by the exact same societal standards as any other woman.

Ok, jumped the shark on that one!

No, not in the slightest. Transwomen are not held to any of the same standards as actual women. Sacred bloody caste.

The fact that society believes a man who says he's a woman, instead of a woman who says he’s not, is proof that society knows exactly who is the man and who is the woman."
- Jen Izaakson

What does a man do when living as a transwoman to cause other people to act differently towards him from how they would act if he was living as a man? Is it in the way he dresses, or the way he speaks, or some aspect of his behaviour?

He has to do something differently, otherwise people would just treat him as a man.

Hilarious!
All human beings are born. No one is born with an innate desire to change their sex, in fact until late toddlerhood, no one really has any concept of their sex.

“You are treated, perceived, and judged by the exact same societal standards as any other woman.”

Not if any person has even a doubt that the person is female and is male. I would say that also if a person who has a trans identity wears things such as lanyards etc, they are more likely to be judged by the exact same societal standards as any other person with a transgender identity.

It is a very overconfident statement to make that any male is being held to the exact same societal standard as a female person.

Ah, so living ‘as a woman’ is meaningless

I think you’re ignoring the obvious here. The trans women this applies to will have been on HRT for many years and their appearance will have changed.

Mostly not so much that they look female after more than a cursory glance. And not when they move. Amd what are you thoughts on the 90 odd percent that retain their penises, are they to be called 'she' too?

Everyone will still be completely clear he's a man

How would a man know if they are treated the same as women?

They could be treated differently after 'transition', but that isnt the same as how women are treated.

We don’t need to read minds to understand human interactions. Social friction isn’t silent. If the world didn't perceive someone as a woman, it wouldn't be a well-kept secret. The double-takes, awkward stumbles, and daily friction would make it glaringly obvious.
When daily life is entirely frictionless and mundane, it’s because the human brain has already automatically categorized what’s in front of it and moved on.