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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Push and pull factors in transitioning

313 replies

GCScot · 16/06/2026 09:32

People's motivations in making a change can be categorised into 'push' and 'pull' factors. 'Push' factors are your dissatisfaction with your current state. 'Pull' factors are the perceived advantages of another state.

I started thinking about the possible push and pull factors for people transitioning their gender. It made me realise that there are two distinct groups:

Group 1 = mainly motivated by push factors. i.e. they are unhappy with their sexed body. They include:

  • Women/girls with internalised misogyny
  • Gay people with internalised homophobia
  • Non-genderconforming autistic people who have internalised sexist stereotypes as fact
  • Survivors of abuse/trauma who are trying to protect themselves from future abuse/trauma

Group 2 = mainly motivated by pull factors. i.e. they are attracted to being/being perceived to be the opposite sex. They include:

  • People who are sexually aroused by the idea of themselves being the opposite sex (AGP/AAP)
  • People who think they can gain a personal advantage (sporting/competitive/sexual access) by claiming to be the opposite sex

Group 1 are mainly children and young adults, especially girls. They have gender dysphoria. Because they are trying to permanently and convincingly escape their sexed bodies, they are more likely to undergo medical modifications (surgery, artificial hormones). They have a diverse range of vulnerabilities as a result of their own personal life experiences and the prejudices of society

Group 2 are mainly adult men. We might say they have gender euphoria. Because they aren't trying to escape their sexed bodies they are unlikely to undergo medical modification, preferring temporary and superficial modifications such as clothes, make up, prosthetics, names and pronouns. The majority of the aggressive vocal TRAs come from this group

TRAs deliberately merge the two groups

They know they can utilise the sincerity, vulnerability and innocence of Group 1:
Trans appears in childhood - it must be innate!
Trans appears in childhood - it can't be sexually motivated!
Trans people have gender dysphoria - they're vulnerable!
Look at the lengths they'll go to (surgery, hormones) - they must be genuine!

But when it comes to the motivations of trans people, the TRAs suddenly switch track. They emphasise the pull factor acting on Group 2 ("wanting to be a wo/man") rather than the push factor acting on Group 1 (trying to escape your sexed body). Because any detailed discussion of just why someone might want to escape their body would raise awkward questions about whether wanting to transition is really a cause for celebration and affirmation.

I think it's very important we distinguish between the two groups when discussing objections to gender ideology. They are very different groups with different motivations and consequences. I think part of the reason so many trans allies are resistant to changing their opinions or even discussing the issue is because most of the trans people they know are Group 1s. They recognise these people's sincerity and vulnerability and have been duped by Group 2 TRAs into not examining the underlying push and pull factors of transition

OP posts:
EmilyinEverton · 17/06/2026 11:29

Seethlaw · 17/06/2026 10:31

But what trans people are saying is they at an individual level associate with the category.

So... they associate with dressing like a trucker to signify their association to the male gender? Or what?

Yeah I can. Because an individual can have group associations. It doesn't work the other way round tho. which is where you are getting confused,

How is a group association related to an inner feeling??

Well, if you are relating to a behavioural identity category its because you have it.

Obviously not. Everyone can relate to stuff outside of one's own category. That's basic humanity.

So... they associate with dressing like a trucker to signify their association to the male gender? Or what?

How is a group association related to an inner feeling??

Trans men might associate their personal inclinations towards masculine expression as identifying/belonging with the gender category of men.

Well, if you are relating to a behavioural identity category its because you have it.
Obviously not. Everyone can relate to stuff outside of one's own category. That's basic humanity.

See above.

murasaki · 17/06/2026 11:38

Ooh, is someone transplaining to Seethlaw again? I do so enjoy that.

PrettyDamnCosmic · 17/06/2026 11:47

EmilyinEverton · 17/06/2026 11:19

I'm referring to biological psychological traits that exist on a spectrum.

I'm referring to biological psychological traits that exist on a spectrum.

What is a biological psychological trait?

What is a non-biological psychological trait?

EmilyinEverton · 17/06/2026 11:48

Making an association between yourself and someone/something else does not make you into that person or thing.

The same way a person possessing female reproductive biological traits is a cis woman a natal male possessing gendered inclinations of a cis female can be a trans woman. No one is suggesting gendered traits can make a natal male into a natal female.

murasaki · 17/06/2026 11:51

EmilyinEverton · 17/06/2026 11:48

Making an association between yourself and someone/something else does not make you into that person or thing.

The same way a person possessing female reproductive biological traits is a cis woman a natal male possessing gendered inclinations of a cis female can be a trans woman. No one is suggesting gendered traits can make a natal male into a natal female.

So transmen are actually cis women according to what you just said. Interesting. You did say 'is' not ' can be'.

EmilyinEverton · 17/06/2026 11:52

PrettyDamnCosmic · 17/06/2026 11:47

I'm referring to biological psychological traits that exist on a spectrum.

What is a biological psychological trait?

What is a non-biological psychological trait?

The Big 5 Personality Traits are estimated between 30 to 60% biological.

EmilyinEverton · 17/06/2026 11:53

murasaki · 17/06/2026 11:51

So transmen are actually cis women according to what you just said. Interesting. You did say 'is' not ' can be'.

No that's clearly not what I said.

EmilyinEverton · 17/06/2026 11:57

murasaki · 17/06/2026 11:38

Ooh, is someone transplaining to Seethlaw again? I do so enjoy that.

That's as ignorant as saying Candace Owens can never be corrected on black issues or Phyllis Schlafly on women's issues by someone who isn't black or female.

Soooo lived experience!

DustyWindowsills · 17/06/2026 11:58

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

murasaki · 17/06/2026 12:10

EmilyinEverton · 17/06/2026 11:57

That's as ignorant as saying Candace Owens can never be corrected on black issues or Phyllis Schlafly on women's issues by someone who isn't black or female.

Soooo lived experience!

Interesting choices there. And somewhat rude to Seethlaw.

Seethlaw · 17/06/2026 12:15

murasaki · 17/06/2026 12:10

Interesting choices there. And somewhat rude to Seethlaw.

And somewhat rude to Seethlaw.

I rather think that was the entire point 😂

SwirlyGates · 17/06/2026 12:18

EmilyinEverton · 17/06/2026 11:19

I'm referring to biological psychological traits that exist on a spectrum.

Like how big your boobs are? Big = woman, flat-chested = man?

Or height? Short = woman, tall = man.

Because otherwise there's not much of a spectrum.

EmilyinEverton · 17/06/2026 12:23

murasaki · 17/06/2026 12:10

Interesting choices there. And somewhat rude to Seethlaw.

Yes yes she must be terribly offended by a difference of opinion as opposed to how trans people are routinely dehumanised & demonised by all her GC 'friends' on this platform.

The hypocrisy is shameless.

GreyskySexRealistsky · 17/06/2026 12:27

EmilyinEverton · 17/06/2026 12:23

Yes yes she must be terribly offended by a difference of opinion as opposed to how trans people are routinely dehumanised & demonised by all her GC 'friends' on this platform.

The hypocrisy is shameless.

"She"?

murasaki · 17/06/2026 12:32

GreyskySexRealistsky · 17/06/2026 12:27

"She"?

Indeed. You can't have it every which way, Emily.

murasaki · 17/06/2026 12:33

Seethlaw · 17/06/2026 12:15

And somewhat rude to Seethlaw.

I rather think that was the entire point 😂

You're just not doing trans well enough for Emily!

Seethlaw · 17/06/2026 12:38

murasaki · 17/06/2026 12:33

You're just not doing trans well enough for Emily!

Good thing I'm not doing trans for anyone but me, then 😁

murasaki · 17/06/2026 12:46

Seethlaw · 17/06/2026 12:38

Good thing I'm not doing trans for anyone but me, then 😁

Definitely!

GCScot · 17/06/2026 13:03

highame · 17/06/2026 06:42

Why isn't social contagion mentioned by the Op in group 1? It's been a major factor and acknowledged as such.

I agree social contagion is a major factor

I didn't include it because I was mainly thinking about why specific individuals are susceptible to identifying as trans, i.e. what the underlying psychology is of why some individuals are caught up in social contagion and others aren't

I guess some demographics are more susceptible to social contagion - teenage girls spring to mind. For a person affected by social contagion I guess the push is not wanting to be an outsider and the pull is social cachet

OP posts:
Shortshriftandlethal · 17/06/2026 14:05

EmilyinEverton · 17/06/2026 11:19

I'm referring to biological psychological traits that exist on a spectrum.

We are all human beings regardless of whether we are male or female, and as such we all share in the full potential and possible range of human personality and character.

Just because a male person expresses or feels nurturing feelings ( associated with female people due to their role in pregnancy and childbirth/care) it doesn't make him a woman/a female person. And just because a female person may be interested in mechanics or in taking machines apart ( associated with men /coded as 'masculine') it doesn't make her a man/male person.

I really don't understand what it is you are struggling to understand here. It is not preferences or personality that make you male or female, a man or a woman - it is your biology and your chromosomal hard drive. Just because man can feel what may be regarded as 'feminine sentiments' it doesn't make him a woman.

EmilyinEverton · 17/06/2026 14:05

GreyskySexRealistsky · 17/06/2026 12:27

"She"?

You mean to say The Seether isn't a gender critical feminist & therefore actually believes in preferred pronouns now?

Make up your mind.

Shortshriftandlethal · 17/06/2026 14:10

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Everton is a suburb of Liverpool. I always tend to associate 'Emily' with Joss Prior - who lives in the Everton/Kirkdale area of the city. I know he has two daughters.

murasaki · 17/06/2026 14:17

EmilyinEverton · 17/06/2026 14:05

You mean to say The Seether isn't a gender critical feminist & therefore actually believes in preferred pronouns now?

Make up your mind.

Seethlaw (and correct me if I'm wrong!) has previously said that there are preferences, but that they won't be too aerated if people use other ones. However there's a difference between doing that and doing it specifically to be insulting, which is what you are doing, especially by saying 'the Seether'. It's deeply unpleasant behaviour.

Shortshriftandlethal · 17/06/2026 14:28

EmilyinEverton · 17/06/2026 11:48

Making an association between yourself and someone/something else does not make you into that person or thing.

The same way a person possessing female reproductive biological traits is a cis woman a natal male possessing gendered inclinations of a cis female can be a trans woman. No one is suggesting gendered traits can make a natal male into a natal female.

What you are calling 'gendered traits' comes across as not only prescriptive but actually quite regressive. Men do not become any kind of woman just because they like 'girly' things. Isn't that what people used to say to gay men " He's not a real man, he's a girly boy etc" Isn't this what the women's movement and the gay liberation movement sought to over come?

Women and girls have separate spaces/provisons in certain types of public situation not because of their personality preferences, but because of their biology/their female body. A male body, even with modifications, is not a female body, nor does it have female biology. Which is why a trans -identified man will never need to see a gynaecologist.

Seethlaw · 17/06/2026 15:18

murasaki · 17/06/2026 14:17

Seethlaw (and correct me if I'm wrong!) has previously said that there are preferences, but that they won't be too aerated if people use other ones. However there's a difference between doing that and doing it specifically to be insulting, which is what you are doing, especially by saying 'the Seether'. It's deeply unpleasant behaviour.

That's right, I don't much care about what pronouns are used for me. And in this particular case, I'm quite amused by what the choice of pronouns and epithets to use for me reveals of the mentality and principles of this particular TRA.

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